Quote from: paul_e on February 27, 2018, 11:54:58 AMBecause his knee touched he's effectively made himself out of play and has to exit the ruck before he can go back in to compete (much like the tackled player releasing the ball or the tackler letting go of the player and standing up before they can compete. The issue I have with it is that Owens calls 'lost now' and Launchbury stops competing so they get the pass away, it's not launchbury's fault the pass is shit and you never see a mistake covered for like that normally, His defence that the damage was done is just about on the side of the law but 99 times out of a hundred if the ref says it's lost and the defender backs away it's not going back as a pen if the ball gets lost, the inconsistency is the problem.If you going to go back for stuff that is marginal like that then you have to do it regularly. For example (i'll link the video I'm going from so the times make sense):If you go to the 2nd scottish try (about 3 minutes). I believe the clearout on Farrell is around the neck, if they go back and look at that it's probably a penalty and that gets disallowed but because no one bothered to check they get the points.On top of that is the Ryan Wilson citing for scratching at Hughes eyes. - https://twitter.com/bbcrugbyunion/status/967685739071721473Owens has built his reputation of 'grow up and get on with it' which i normally agree with but when it's around the eyes you really have to check because if his little finger makes contact with the eye then he has to do more than a slap on the wrist.Agree Paul and there were some decisions around the breakdown in the Ireland v Wales game that were baffling as well. I would never accuse a referee of bias or deliberate cheating, but as someone said on a blog I was reading yesterday, it is sometimes as if referees have decided which team are on top at a point in the game and then only start looking for offences by the team they consider are under the cosh at the time. It can be highly frustrating as a constant stream of penalties can influence a game so much.
Because his knee touched he's effectively made himself out of play and has to exit the ruck before he can go back in to compete (much like the tackled player releasing the ball or the tackler letting go of the player and standing up before they can compete. The issue I have with it is that Owens calls 'lost now' and Launchbury stops competing so they get the pass away, it's not launchbury's fault the pass is shit and you never see a mistake covered for like that normally, His defence that the damage was done is just about on the side of the law but 99 times out of a hundred if the ref says it's lost and the defender backs away it's not going back as a pen if the ball gets lost, the inconsistency is the problem.If you going to go back for stuff that is marginal like that then you have to do it regularly. For example (i'll link the video I'm going from so the times make sense):If you go to the 2nd scottish try (about 3 minutes). I believe the clearout on Farrell is around the neck, if they go back and look at that it's probably a penalty and that gets disallowed but because no one bothered to check they get the points.On top of that is the Ryan Wilson citing for scratching at Hughes eyes. - https://twitter.com/bbcrugbyunion/status/967685739071721473Owens has built his reputation of 'grow up and get on with it' which i normally agree with but when it's around the eyes you really have to check because if his little finger makes contact with the eye then he has to do more than a slap on the wrist.
Quote from: tomd2103 on February 27, 2018, 12:25:33 PMQuote from: paul_e on February 27, 2018, 11:54:58 AMBecause his knee touched he's effectively made himself out of play and has to exit the ruck before he can go back in to compete (much like the tackled player releasing the ball or the tackler letting go of the player and standing up before they can compete. The issue I have with it is that Owens calls 'lost now' and Launchbury stops competing so they get the pass away, it's not launchbury's fault the pass is shit and you never see a mistake covered for like that normally, His defence that the damage was done is just about on the side of the law but 99 times out of a hundred if the ref says it's lost and the defender backs away it's not going back as a pen if the ball gets lost, the inconsistency is the problem.If you going to go back for stuff that is marginal like that then you have to do it regularly. For example (i'll link the video I'm going from so the times make sense):If you go to the 2nd scottish try (about 3 minutes). I believe the clearout on Farrell is around the neck, if they go back and look at that it's probably a penalty and that gets disallowed but because no one bothered to check they get the points.On top of that is the Ryan Wilson citing for scratching at Hughes eyes. - https://twitter.com/bbcrugbyunion/status/967685739071721473Owens has built his reputation of 'grow up and get on with it' which i normally agree with but when it's around the eyes you really have to check because if his little finger makes contact with the eye then he has to do more than a slap on the wrist.Agree Paul and there were some decisions around the breakdown in the Ireland v Wales game that were baffling as well. I would never accuse a referee of bias or deliberate cheating, but as someone said on a blog I was reading yesterday, it is sometimes as if referees have decided which team are on top at a point in the game and then only start looking for offences by the team they consider are under the cosh at the time. It can be highly frustrating as a constant stream of penalties can influence a game so much. I thought everyone knew Nigel Owens played for the other side I think you're right re once a team is on top the team felt to be under the cosh will be penalised more, it certainly looked that way, England weren't without their faults but Scotland got away with far too much at the breakdown. We've 2 southern hemisphere referees, assistants & TMOs for our remaining fixtures, hopefully controversy free.
Quote from: nigel on February 27, 2018, 09:18:32 AMQuote from: paul_e on February 26, 2018, 03:24:59 PMQuote from: tomd2103 on February 26, 2018, 02:26:13 PMQuote from: nigel on February 25, 2018, 12:04:45 AMScotland deserved win after first half, but, I fell that Nige got a major decision wrong. Danny Care should have been allowed to touch down then he should have gone to the TMO. I don't think Launchbury should have been penalised. That would have put England level and I'm pretty sure we'd have gone on to win.In my defence I was a winger/full back so maybe a forward could clarify that one.I think Nigel Owens got both decisions right, but the way he dealt with the Launchbury one was questionable. Launchbury's knee touched the floor when he was competing for the ball at a ruck, which meant he was no longer supporting his weight and that is a penalty (albeit quite a harsh one considering what goes on at most rucks). Owens should have called the penalty there and then and given the Scots the penalty advantage, but he did neither and only called it back for a penalty after the pass had been intercepted. It was the right decision, but he had not made it clear that it was a penalty and an advantage was being played, so it was questionable. The knock on was clear, if again, unfortunate. The bold bit is important because, for me, Barclay supported his own weight in about a third of breakdowns he contested and got away with it repeatedly.I've finished watching it now btw, I agree Owens can say he got both decisions right but I don't think he can legitimately claim to have followed the laws consistently at the breakdown.Thanks for clearing that up, guys.Just watched it again, though. Launchburys knee touched the ground before he challenged, but, was off when he went for ball (I thought that was OK), Owens told him to release, which he did, pass intersepted for 'Try' Surely that's wrong?If his knee touches the ground, he is no longer supporting his weight and it is technically a penalty at that point. You normally see referees award the penalty at that point, but call advantage if the attacking team retain possession, only to call it back if they feel no advantage has been gained. You also often hear referees shout "release" or "you've lost it now" to players in Launchbury's position and as long as they do stop competing, then play goes on with no penalty awarded. The fact that Nigel Owens didn't do any of the above was the problem really.
Quote from: paul_e on February 26, 2018, 03:24:59 PMQuote from: tomd2103 on February 26, 2018, 02:26:13 PMQuote from: nigel on February 25, 2018, 12:04:45 AMScotland deserved win after first half, but, I fell that Nige got a major decision wrong. Danny Care should have been allowed to touch down then he should have gone to the TMO. I don't think Launchbury should have been penalised. That would have put England level and I'm pretty sure we'd have gone on to win.In my defence I was a winger/full back so maybe a forward could clarify that one.I think Nigel Owens got both decisions right, but the way he dealt with the Launchbury one was questionable. Launchbury's knee touched the floor when he was competing for the ball at a ruck, which meant he was no longer supporting his weight and that is a penalty (albeit quite a harsh one considering what goes on at most rucks). Owens should have called the penalty there and then and given the Scots the penalty advantage, but he did neither and only called it back for a penalty after the pass had been intercepted. It was the right decision, but he had not made it clear that it was a penalty and an advantage was being played, so it was questionable. The knock on was clear, if again, unfortunate. The bold bit is important because, for me, Barclay supported his own weight in about a third of breakdowns he contested and got away with it repeatedly.I've finished watching it now btw, I agree Owens can say he got both decisions right but I don't think he can legitimately claim to have followed the laws consistently at the breakdown.Thanks for clearing that up, guys.Just watched it again, though. Launchburys knee touched the ground before he challenged, but, was off when he went for ball (I thought that was OK), Owens told him to release, which he did, pass intersepted for 'Try' Surely that's wrong?
Quote from: tomd2103 on February 26, 2018, 02:26:13 PMQuote from: nigel on February 25, 2018, 12:04:45 AMScotland deserved win after first half, but, I fell that Nige got a major decision wrong. Danny Care should have been allowed to touch down then he should have gone to the TMO. I don't think Launchbury should have been penalised. That would have put England level and I'm pretty sure we'd have gone on to win.In my defence I was a winger/full back so maybe a forward could clarify that one.I think Nigel Owens got both decisions right, but the way he dealt with the Launchbury one was questionable. Launchbury's knee touched the floor when he was competing for the ball at a ruck, which meant he was no longer supporting his weight and that is a penalty (albeit quite a harsh one considering what goes on at most rucks). Owens should have called the penalty there and then and given the Scots the penalty advantage, but he did neither and only called it back for a penalty after the pass had been intercepted. It was the right decision, but he had not made it clear that it was a penalty and an advantage was being played, so it was questionable. The knock on was clear, if again, unfortunate. The bold bit is important because, for me, Barclay supported his own weight in about a third of breakdowns he contested and got away with it repeatedly.I've finished watching it now btw, I agree Owens can say he got both decisions right but I don't think he can legitimately claim to have followed the laws consistently at the breakdown.
Quote from: nigel on February 25, 2018, 12:04:45 AMScotland deserved win after first half, but, I fell that Nige got a major decision wrong. Danny Care should have been allowed to touch down then he should have gone to the TMO. I don't think Launchbury should have been penalised. That would have put England level and I'm pretty sure we'd have gone on to win.In my defence I was a winger/full back so maybe a forward could clarify that one.I think Nigel Owens got both decisions right, but the way he dealt with the Launchbury one was questionable. Launchbury's knee touched the floor when he was competing for the ball at a ruck, which meant he was no longer supporting his weight and that is a penalty (albeit quite a harsh one considering what goes on at most rucks). Owens should have called the penalty there and then and given the Scots the penalty advantage, but he did neither and only called it back for a penalty after the pass had been intercepted. It was the right decision, but he had not made it clear that it was a penalty and an advantage was being played, so it was questionable. The knock on was clear, if again, unfortunate.
Scotland deserved win after first half, but, I fell that Nige got a major decision wrong. Danny Care should have been allowed to touch down then he should have gone to the TMO. I don't think Launchbury should have been penalised. That would have put England level and I'm pretty sure we'd have gone on to win.In my defence I was a winger/full back so maybe a forward could clarify that one.
Sheffield Wednesday forum is that way lads ----->
No Hartley.
Quote from: Jon Crofts on March 08, 2018, 10:07:29 AMNo Hartley. That strengthens the side IMO
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