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Author Topic: International Rugby  (Read 381700 times)

Offline PaulWinch again

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Re: Six Nations 2016
« Reply #990 on: March 20, 2016, 12:12:41 AM »
What is remarkable is how well Kruis and Itoje have done. If you'd said before the tournament that Launchbury wouldn't be first choice if fit and that Lawes wouldn't be in the squad full stop you'd have been laughed at.

Offline Villan For Life

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Re: Six Nations 2016
« Reply #991 on: March 20, 2016, 10:08:30 AM »
What is remarkable is how well Kruis and Itoje have done. If you'd said before the tournament that Launchbury wouldn't be first choice if fit and that Lawes wouldn't be in the squad full stop you'd have been laughed at.

That's a nice position to be in and it will be interesting to see where Tuilagi will fit in; for me he has to play in the first test against the Aussies.

Offline peter w

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Re: Six Nations 2016
« Reply #992 on: March 20, 2016, 08:45:03 PM »
I think Jones is canny enough to start replacing players bit by bit that he sees as the players who are good but not going to make us great. I'm thinking Haskell, Robshaw, Cole, Youngs, M Vunipola, Brown, and even Farrell.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2016, 10:32:41 PM by peter w »

Offline PaulWinch again

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Re: Six Nations 2016
« Reply #993 on: March 20, 2016, 08:47:36 PM »
I think he rates Robshaw and I think he's fine at 6 to be honest.

Offline peter w

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Re: Six Nations 2016
« Reply #994 on: March 20, 2016, 10:34:46 PM »
Yes I agree. I think he's fine at 6 at the moment and Jones says the right things about him. There's a chance of course but I'd be surprised if he's apart of any England world-cup winning starting 15. If he is it'll show how much he will have improved which is just a win-win for England.

Offline paul_e

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Re: Six Nations 2016
« Reply #995 on: March 20, 2016, 11:16:28 PM »
I'm not sure, Robshaw is ok at 6 but when Nathan Hughes is available as an 8 do you have one of Hughes or Billy on the bench or do you shift Billy to 6 and play both?  With Robshaw I think it's going to be him being dropped because there are better options (I think Clifford will pass him soon and Gibson and Ewers have got to be knocking on the door).  I think the same is true at 9.  For all my bitching Youngs and Care aren't terrible but both of them have big gaps which Simpson, Robson and Chudley don't have so you have to think it's likely to be 2 from those 3 in the long term.

The likes of Haskell, Farrell (as a 12) and Cole just aren't good enough.


I disagree with you a lot on Brown, but only because I don't understand the nuances of his, and the game, but like what I see of him. Today, I did think he was poor and made the wrong decisions when he was (seldomly) involved in the game. In the first half I think we were too slow at the breakdown which leas to too many penalties. But that was team wide.


The problem with Brown, as I've tried to get across a few times, is that he's thick (as a player), that's leads to bad decision making which comes out as:
- His positioning is very iffy at times where he stays too central when teams are attacking down a wing, leaving himself too much to do to get across and cover a missed tackle.
- He misses the 'right' pass too often.
- He runs into other people's space and wastes overlaps.
- He runs into contact without having enough people around him and gets turned over.
- He tries to act the hard man by smashing people in the tackle and ends up selling himself.
- His kicking game is poor, too often he gives the opposition good counter attack ball when he should just find touch.


I won't deny he's a fantastic ball carrier and he's solid under the high ball but like Haskell and Cole the bad things make him a liability and if we want to win the next world cup we can't afford to have those types of players.  I have similar concerns about Manu but voicing those around most English rugby fans gets people looking at you like you'r insane.  On top of that I think he can still learn how to fix the flaws, The others I don't think will ever change.

Offline peter w

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Re: Six Nations 2016
« Reply #996 on: March 20, 2016, 11:25:47 PM »
Well I stopped reading because my eyes are bleeding. They were immediately drawn to something negative about Tuilagi and I'm afraid my eyes will allow no sight of such insanity.

Offline paul_e

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Re: Six Nations 2016
« Reply #997 on: March 21, 2016, 12:07:30 AM »
Yeah, I get that so let me clarify, Manu is an absolute beast and his potential is unbelievable but he's far from a complete player and has been badly let down by his club and country who have let him continue to play as if he's a raw 18 year old who just wants to get the ball in hand run hard and fast.  We shouldn't stop him doing that but we should have worked on his offloading game and ability to pass out of contact so as well as punching holes if they don't double up he can get the ball outside if tackler get drawn into him.  The comparison should be Nonu who had a similar physique and the same technical flaws when he broke through but was developed into a rounded player who became the heartbeat of a very strong NZ team.  We've badly wasted him so far and rushing him back into the matchday squad when he's half fit doesn't give me much confidence that those mistakes are going to be rectified.

Offline peter w

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Re: Six Nations 2016
« Reply #998 on: March 21, 2016, 12:29:14 AM »
I'd say that Jones is probably the best person for Tuilagi, and English fans, as I doubt he'll allow a one-dimensional player to be around the team for long.

Offline paul_e

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Re: Six Nations 2016
« Reply #999 on: March 21, 2016, 09:37:35 AM »
I'd say that Jones is probably the best person for Tuilagi, and English fans, as I doubt he'll allow a one-dimensional player to be around the team for long.

That's my hope as well, as I say I think he can fix the flaws and become a great player but he really needs people to tell him he's got flaws rather than all the gushing praise he's met with by everyone.  Right now the bench is the right place for him and we should be looking to get Slade in at 12 for the tour.

Offline nigel

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Re: Six Nations 2016
« Reply #1000 on: March 21, 2016, 07:07:24 PM »
I disagree with you a lot on Brown, but only because I don't understand the nuances of his, and the game, but like what I see of him. Today, I did think he was poor and made the wrong decisions when he was (seldomly) involved in the game. In the first half I think we were too slow at the breakdown which leas to too many penalties. But that was team wide.


The problem with Brown, as I've tried to get across a few times, is that he's thick (as a player), that's leads to bad decision making which comes out as:
- His positioning is very iffy at times where he stays too central when teams are attacking down a wing, leaving himself too much to do to get across and cover a missed tackle.
- He misses the 'right' pass too often.
- He runs into other people's space and wastes overlaps.
- He runs into contact without having enough people around him and gets turned over.
- He tries to act the hard man by smashing people in the tackle and ends up selling himself.
- His kicking game is poor, too often he gives the opposition good counter attack ball when he should just find touch.


I won't deny he's a fantastic ball carrier and he's solid under the high ball but like Haskell and Cole the bad things make him a liability and if we want to win the next world cup we can't afford to have those types of players.  I have similar concerns about Manu but voicing those around most English rugby fans gets people looking at you like you'r insane.  On top of that I think he can still learn how to fix the flaws, The others I don't think will ever change.

I was a big fan of Brown and, after reading certain views, watched his games closely. I have to agree with you, paul, he had a poor tournament.
Everything you've listed above were there to see.
I'm sure that will be addressed.

On a tangent, I have to say that I love reading your rugby posts. You obviously watch a fair amount which gives you a great insight on players.
I don't always agree, but, I can't argue with your knowledge.
Hopefully, I'll be watching more next season.
Looking forward to the Autumn internationals and the Lions

Offline Dante Lavelli

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Re: Six Nations 2016
« Reply #1001 on: March 21, 2016, 08:48:24 PM »
Stuart Barnes pretty much based his Sunday Times article on Brown and your points Paul.  In summary, he is great up to a point - high ball / plenty of cajoles / a decent athlete - but he limits the ability of the team due to his sizeable flaws.  To paraphrase, brown is a great player but no team that he plays in will win a World Cup.

An Alan Hutton type player.

Offline paul_e

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Re: Six Nations 2016
« Reply #1002 on: March 22, 2016, 10:05:05 AM »
I'm glad people are starting to see it because for years I've pointed these things out and people have looked at me like I'm mad.  I just think if you won't pick the best try scorer in England (Wade) because of perceived weaknesses then you're treading dangerous grounds to ignore the weaknesses of the players you have selected.

This week it's particularly easy to target Brown because the last game he did his best to highlight every single one of problems for me and he was, in my opinion, clearly our weak link.

Offline nigel

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Re: Six Nations 2016
« Reply #1003 on: March 22, 2016, 07:45:15 PM »
I'm glad people are starting to see it because for years I've pointed these things out and people have looked at me like I'm mad.  I just think if you won't pick the best try scorer in England (Wade) because of perceived weaknesses then you're treading dangerous grounds to ignore the weaknesses of the players you have selected.

This week it's particularly easy to target Brown because the last game he did his best to highlight every single one of problems for me and he was, in my opinion, clearly our weak link.

Stop being so smug  ;)


Offline paul_e

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Re: Six Nations 2016
« Reply #1004 on: March 22, 2016, 09:29:12 PM »
I'm glad people are starting to see it because for years I've pointed these things out and people have looked at me like I'm mad.  I just think if you won't pick the best try scorer in England (Wade) because of perceived weaknesses then you're treading dangerous grounds to ignore the weaknesses of the players you have selected.

This week it's particularly easy to target Brown because the last game he did his best to highlight every single one of problems for me and he was, in my opinion, clearly our weak link.

Stop being so smug  ;)



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