International Rugby

[nigel]

Great start today then we slowly but surely got dragged down to Scotland's real level before waking up and really dominating the set pieces. 

I see Murrayfield was packed again, with kids, hence the booing of penalties and conversions, if your Union needs to give tickets away then at least tell the kids to keep quiet.

Was talking to my mate about the boos and whistles. I've noticed over the past few years it's been creeping into the game more.
Whether it's just the England games but the Scots, Irish and Welsh are doing it more, the French and Italians are no better, either.
By far the worse, though, are Argentina.

As for the game.
Pretty scrappy, but, it went pretty much as I expected.
Scotland aren't a bad team these days, and they've come off a good world cup.
I didn't think Scotland really looked like scoring a try as the English defense was very good. 

[paul_e]

I think the 'dragged down to their real level' is a bit harsh.  I think they've got a good pack focused on winning quick ball and stopping the opposition from doing the same.  I also think they've got a good set of outside backs who are all capable of breaking the line and scoring tries.  The problem is that 9, 10, 12 and 13 are weak for them, which means they struggle to control the tempo and field position.  It also means that if you set up to screen the chip kick and deal with crash ball through the 10-12 channel they're not going to be much of a threat in open play, which is why they just don't score many tries.  Laidlaw in particular is a poor scrum-half who happens to be a good kicker and he therefore gets game time because Finn Russell is the best 10 they have and his kicking from the tee is abysmal.

when the game 'died' for about half an hour in the middle it was because they were competing at the breakdown and slowing the ball whilst Haskell stood waiting at first receiver instead of doing his job.  A few people starter covering for him early in the 2ndf half and we started to get some control and then when Clifford came on and Haskell moved across we got back on top and looked comfortable.  When you consider that Kvesic came on and dominated the game on Friday (against a very good 7 in Louw) it's very hard to justify Haskell starting there again.

Youngs made a difference as well, Care just isn't good enough to start for England (and shouldn't be in the squad ahead of Simpson and Chudley who are clearly the form 9s in the league).

Aside from that I thought Nowell and Watson were superb, add May, Yarde and Wade and we've got one hell of a set of wingers to choose from, and once we've got them all fit we've got a loot of quality in the centres as well.  By all accounts Burrell was excellent again yesterday so I think he'll come back into the mix before long.

[Jon Crofts]

Perfect silence for the Irish first penalty.  Well done Wales, Jocks take note.

[paul_e]

Great game today (as a neutral and a bit of a purist).

This weekend turned out almost to script as I called it earlier in the thread, Italy gave France a real fright and put in a solid performance, England had enough quality to fight off a tough breakdown centred performance from the scots and there was fuck all between the irish and welsh.  I'll stick with my prediction that this is going to be a fantastic 6N.

[nigel]

Perfect silence for the Irish first penalty.  Well done Wales, Jocks take note.

I noticed that, too, but as it was in Ireland I'm not surprised.
There were a few shouts/whistles when Priestland was kicking to put Wales ahead, though. Granted, it only sounded like 15 to 20 people.

I feel, however, it may only be the England games that this trend will happen.

[nigel]

Great game today (as a neutral and a bit of a purist).

This weekend turned out almost to script as I called it earlier in the thread, Italy gave France a real fright and put in a solid performance, England had enough quality to fight off a tough breakdown centred performance from the scots and there was fuck all between the irish and welsh.  I'll stick with my prediction that this is going to be a fantastic 6N.

Yes, but, it didn't surprise me when I realised how young that French team was. The oldest player in the starting XV was 30. A couple of them looked like school leavers!!

[Jon Crofts]

It'll be tough for the Irish with a 6 day turnaround before visiting Paris on Saturday.

[paul_e]

Great game today (as a neutral and a bit of a purist).

This weekend turned out almost to script as I called it earlier in the thread, Italy gave France a real fright and put in a solid performance, England had enough quality to fight off a tough breakdown centred performance from the scots and there was fuck all between the irish and welsh.  I'll stick with my prediction that this is going to be a fantastic 6N.

Yes, but, it didn't surprise me when I realised how young that French team was. The oldest player in the starting XV was 30. A couple of them looked like school leavers!!

Yeah, it won't get any easier either, they have similar problems to England in the football with a national league that's giving very few opportunities for their own youth to come through.

[cdbearsfan]

Perfect silence for the Irish first penalty.  Well done Wales, Jocks take note.

Confirms what I already suspected. The Welsh are weird.

[UK Redsox]

Even though I grew up playing/watching rugby rather than football, I've never understood why crowds are expected to stay silent during kicks.

[peter w]

Yeah, fuck-em. They're rarely quiet in internationals v England, mind...

Anyway, for you rugby bods who know more about the nuances of the game than I this is interesting:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/12144734/Scotland-9-England-15-Five-early-hallmarks-of-the-Eddie-Jones-era-after-Six-Nations-victory-in-Calcutta-Cup-clash.html

[UK Redsox]

The first time I heard spectators try to put off a kicker was back in the 80s at HQ, when Aussie fans yelled out "it's a brick" as the England kicker approached the ball

[paul_e]

Yeah, fuck-em. They're rarely quiet in internationals v England, mind...

Anyway, for you rugby bods who know more about the nuances of the game than I this is interesting:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/12144734/Scotland-9-England-15-Five-early-hallmarks-of-the-Eddie-Jones-era-after-Six-Nations-victory-in-Calcutta-Cup-clash.html

I'm going to have fun with this.

1st GIF - This highlights my problem with Haskell.  You can see the meathead with his red scrum cap and he's making no effort to get near to the breakdown (this is about 1-2 minutes in as well).  I understand that he's just lifted and can't be expected to be at the first breakdown but his job is track across and be ready to be the first man in at the next one and he made no effort to do, you could capture that gif from any point in the first hour and you'd see him doing the same.  If you get chance to watch the full match of someone like Toulon playing compare and contrast with what Armitage does and it's a world of difference.  I played back row (normally 8 because I'm a good ball carrier but I probably had 9-10 games at each of the others as well, along with a similar number at 12 having played wing for 2 years when I first started) so I hate seeing people not doing their job from that position.  On another point watching Nowell on that clip I genuinely think he'll end up playing 13 within a couple of years, he has the technique and desire to be the BOD-like ball winning 13, he tried to rip it a fair few times as well, the more I see the more I think he could be the real star of this side.

GIF 2, can't blame Haskell for this one because he was on the floor but Care is piss poor there, yes he's a 9 and his main job is to pass it out from there but in that situation he has to be willing to get into the mix and secure the ball.

GIF 3 which is a roll on from the last one you do see Haskell join the ruck eventually but that's poor decision making from him, in that situation, as with the first one, he needs to be waiting to secure the ball on the next breakdown rather than commiting to one which is almost complete, took himself out of the game.

GIF 4 that's more like it at the breakdown, oddly Robshaw is at the heart of it, if he;'d been doing that for the last 4 years the world cup may have been very different.

GIF 5 this is good understanding of the laws from Billy V (who had a monster of a game), he was involved in the tackle so he can just latch on immediately, which completely disrupts the scottish ball.

The whole series of gifs about attacking show the advantage of getting quick ball, it means you can shift it 5-10 yards, make a small gain and go again, 5-6 phases like that will generally disrupt a defensive line so long as the ball is coming back quickly.  The only thing I will say as a negative here is that the writer highlights the problem with Farrell at 12, he doesn't offer anything in those situations, he hasn't got the footwork or strength to break the line, when he's at 10 it's a bit of an issue, at 12 it just shows him up as being out of his depth.  I'll never be happy with an England team with him in the centres, it's barely a step up from Barritt as for 99% of the game he brings the same qualities, the slight difference being that he can kick a few of the more difficult penalties for us (but that doesn't out weigh the cost, if you don't trust Ford to kick goals then don't pick him, playing Farrell at 12 and having 2 kickers on the bench is just taking the piss.  Get a proper 12 in (I'd be ok with Devoto) have Farrell on the bench and fuck Goode off back to sarries to be replaced by Daly (who's a better kicker anyway but also brings some pace and ball carrying ability as well).  Longer term I'd be tempted to trust Devoto to step into 10 if needed and get someone like Wade, Yarde or May on the bench as well to give us some real pace and threat to bring in, If you need to replace the full back Watson and Daly offer plenty of cover there, either that or give Cipriani the place he deserves.

The defensive stuff is Gustard through and through, players charging out of the line from 1 man out to force the 10 inside and take away all the width, Sarries have been doing this for years and it's incredibly effective if implemented correctly.  This is also where Haskell can get some praise because he's a fantastic tackler and his fitness means he'll always be willing to do that charging down job, which is ideally suited for a 6 so he's just wearing the wrong shirt number.  This is the key problem for England, we've genuinely got 4-5 top class 6s in the country (along with a 2.5 8s, Nathan Hughes being the decimal because he's not eligible yet) but we're really struggling on 7s so long as they refuse to look at Armitage, Kvesic has a lot of potential but he's still very raw and Harrison will be a superb 7 but he really needs more game time to fully establish himself at club level.

Final point, I hate seeing the scrum from above when Cole is involved, I don't understand how he can possibly get away with that (this is the penultimate gif); Kruis is pratically in the front because Cole has just turned sideways, somehow we won a penalty for that one but it goes against us far more often than not and he's learned that from the Leicester school of cheating like fuck in the front row.  I'd much rather we just kept it dead straight and drove through them like Hartley and Mako are trying to do.

[paul_e]

Perfect silence for the Irish first penalty.  Well done Wales, Jocks take note.

Confirms what I already suspected. The Welsh are weird.

I don't have a big problem with this but it is something that you tend to see a lot more in the Scotland-England game than most others and I do wonder if that's in part down to the fact that there are loads of none rugby fans who've got tickets to boo the english bastards rather than to watch rugby or support scotland, I doubt you'll hear it in many other games this year.

[adrenachrome]

I remember Bill McClaren commentating in the early 70's often railing against "ill mannered booing" at penalty kicks.