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Author Topic: International Rugby  (Read 381749 times)

Offline JD

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2015
« Reply #375 on: October 05, 2015, 09:40:02 AM »
The last two games have seen England go back to the dark ages Rugby wise. No flair, predictable, slow at the breakdown and use of the ball and the amount of turnovers they have conceded isn't acceptable at that level.
They seemed to run into dead ends against Aussie and had no clue how to change their game plan. Hooper and Pocock had a field day and showed how it pays to have mobile and quick forwards in a team.
The last couple of days over here have been hell, with the Kiwi's really enjoying England's demise. They can't believe how bad they were.

At least I won't have to get up early to watch any more dire Rugby.
 

Offline PaulWinch again

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2015
« Reply #376 on: October 05, 2015, 10:17:22 AM »
Changing from an attacking Ford to a pragmatic Farrell ultimately cost us a place in the next round. It's not that Farrell was bad against Wales, it's that it signified that we'd bottled it. We have go back back to moving towards an attacking style and it's critical that we become a lot more streetwise at the breakdown. Also the front row needs a lot of work.

Offline Dante Lavelli

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2015
« Reply #377 on: October 05, 2015, 10:46:23 AM »
Changing from an attacking Ford to a pragmatic Farrell ultimately cost us a place in the next round. It's not that Farrell was bad against Wales, it's that it signified that we'd bottled it. We have go back back to moving towards an attacking style and it's critical that we become a lot more streetwise at the breakdown. Also the front row needs a lot of work.

Farrell didn't make any mistakes and kicked his goals versus Wales, but he created far too little considering our dominance for 60 minutes. 

Offline paul_e

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2015
« Reply #378 on: October 05, 2015, 01:06:03 PM »

The problem with Burgess is at Bath they'd prefer him to be in the back row.

The problem with Burgess is that he doesn't know how to play proper Rugby.

How he became a star in the Northern Game is beyond me.

I assume the second part of your comment is tongue in cheek. He is a phenomenal League player. I feel sorry for him as he has been given no time to bed in at all. I think league forwards have a greater transition time than the backs due to the technical aspect of forward play. To turn a forward into a back only complicates it more.

Semi tongue-in-cheek. Based on what I've seen of Burgess playing Union, its difficult for me to see what made him a stand-out League player.

You might of guessed that I'm not a fan of League. I struggle to watch more than a few minutes without yelling "for fecks sake, get up in support of the ball carrier and make yourself available for a pass".

In league he hits the ball at pace and runs through people, he's also fantastic at off-loading in the tackle.  In union he hasn't got the hang of the timing so he looks lost and people aren't used to the snap offloads so they're not running the lines to make the most of them.  Stupidly the centre who would've worked well with him is the one who he replaced in the squad.

Offline UK Redsox

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2015
« Reply #379 on: October 05, 2015, 02:31:54 PM »
Lancaster et al seemed determined to shoehorn Burgess into the squad when it wasn't yet clear whether he could play centre. I have some sympathy for the bloke in the way that he's been switched around between centre and the back row.

I see that he's only 26, so him still being around for 2019 isn't out of the question. Hopefully by then the coaches will have figured out how to make the most of him.

Offline lovejoy

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2015
« Reply #380 on: October 05, 2015, 09:44:02 PM »
It sounds like Lancaster had handed over his team selection to Andy Farrell and led to a big fall out with Catt. Either way, Farrell has to go.

Offline spangley1812

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2015
« Reply #381 on: October 05, 2015, 10:05:35 PM »
I would say is Lancaster good enough to coach NZ, South Africa or Australia........if the answer is no then he isn't good enough for England
and this non-selection of players playing abroad which he himself insisted on has to go
 

Offline spangley1812

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2015
« Reply #382 on: October 05, 2015, 10:11:20 PM »
It sounds like Lancaster had handed over his team selection to Andy Farrell and led to a big fall out with Catt. Either way, Farrell has to go.


The rumours also say that Farrell does all the coaching and Lancaster does not even go onto the training pitch and it does not "sit" well that his son is in the squad

Offline paul_e

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2015
« Reply #383 on: October 06, 2015, 12:38:28 AM »
It sounds like Lancaster had handed over his team selection to Andy Farrell and led to a big fall out with Catt. Either way, Farrell has to go.


The rumours also say that Farrell does all the coaching and Lancaster does not even go onto the training pitch and it does not "sit" well that his son is in the squad

All rumours but it wouldn't surprise me if there is a big element of truth in that, we 'look' like a union team being coached like a league team, in the backs it's pretty clear that the coaching is sub-standard because we're only coaching 1-2 phases so anything after that we look lost and become entirely reliant on one of the outside backs doing something amazing.

I also agree on Owen F's place in the squad, his kicking from the tee has disguised how poor a 10 he really is.  It's no mistake that he's only played about 25 games at 10 for sarries and he's been at 13 the rest of the time, he's just not good enough.  I'm also utterly convinced that Burgess being included was Farrells doing.

If you reflect on the 4 years since the last world cup there have been a few heroic backs to the walls victories in the autumn and a couple of 6Ns where we've nearly been good enough but the only time we looked genuinely good enough to compete in this world cup was the Argentina tour, where Farrell and Robshaw were missing (along with a few others, Dickson played 9 and generated lots of quick ball as well) and we had to play a creative 10 and a proper 7 and suddenly everything clicked.  That should've been the blueprint but fear and negativity were always at the heart of the squad so it was always a squad picked to try to keep in touch with the big boys and sneak it rather than dominate.  That mentality needs to go, we're not a bunch of plucky underdogs who are just happy to get a chance to play at the top end, Georgia and Japan have shown that those sides have a lot to offer but a team that's won a world cup and is rarely outside the top 5 in the rankings shouldn't be trying to emulate them.

Offline PaulWinch again

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2015
« Reply #384 on: October 06, 2015, 02:20:05 PM »
What's the talk of a falling out with Catt and where's that coming from?

Offline PaulWinch again

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2015
« Reply #385 on: October 06, 2015, 02:30:53 PM »
Lancaster has just said 'I believe 100% the group of players at the 6 nations will be the same as what is out there'. That is a seriously worrying statement. How about a specialist 7, Tuilagi and Hartley to name but a few.

Offline cheltenhamlion

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2015
« Reply #386 on: October 06, 2015, 05:51:50 PM »
Lancaster and Farrell have to go. Robshaw needs to be binned as captain as well. It makes him an automatic pick and he isn't good enough.

If we still refuse to change the rules to get Armitage involved then Kvesic has to start at 7 from now on.

Offline paul_e

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2015
« Reply #387 on: October 06, 2015, 06:52:41 PM »
Lancaster has just said 'I believe 100% the group of players at the 6 nations will be the same as what is out there'. That is a seriously worrying statement. How about a specialist 7, Tuilagi and Hartley to name but a few.

Sounds likea  statement from someone who knows it's going to have fuck all to do with him either way.

Offline Jon Crofts

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2015
« Reply #388 on: October 06, 2015, 07:54:32 PM »
Lancaster lost his way 2 years ago I think, he cleared out all the dross left behind after Mike Tindall's stag weekend and there was an immediate improvement in both style and results.  But then something happened, he went on the defensive and couldn't decide on his best team, added to that some bizarre selections and changes of heart and mind and we are pretty much where we were 4 years ago less the disciplinary issues that occurred in NZ.  There has been no progress, in fact overall we've gone backwards, you can't argue with that fact, the rankings don't lie and nor does the fact we failed to progress from our group.

For me Lancasters decline and fall can be summed up in one defining moment in the Australia game, bringing on Nick Easter.

Offline paul_e

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2015
« Reply #389 on: October 06, 2015, 08:20:35 PM »
Lancaster lost his way 2 years ago I think, he cleared out all the dross left behind after Mike Tindall's stag weekend and there was an immediate improvement in both style and results.  But then something happened, he went on the defensive and couldn't decide on his best team, added to that some bizarre selections and changes of heart and mind and we are pretty much where we were 4 years ago less the disciplinary issues that occurred in NZ.  There has been no progress, in fact overall we've gone backwards, you can't argue with that fact, the rankings don't lie and nor does the fact we failed to progress from our group.

For me Lancasters decline and fall can be summed up in one defining moment in the Australia game, bringing on Nick Easter.

I think the clearer summing up was that an injury to May forced him to bring on Ford and suddenly we spent 20minutes looking like we had a chance, before they clocked the fact that if they assumed our centres weren't a threat they could easily close the door.  A forced change that would never have happened otherwise gave us the only period of the game where we looked like a decent side.

For me the point when it became clear we were fucked was when he left Hartley out because he wouldn't be available against Fiji, I think I just wasn't willing to admit it but £5 on Australia to win the tournament and a decision not to take tickets for the Uruguay game when I had the chance (although it was partly down to me supposedly being in Dubai this week which then got cancelled, I'd have been back with loads of time to get there though) showed where my head was. Without Hartley our front 5 just doesn't work, it's not that he is a fantastic player or a nice guy; it's that he makes sure that the 4 guys around him are playing up to the standard he demands.  I have no doubt that Marler (who looked fantastic in the scrum during the 6N) would've got a massive kick up the arse if he scrummaged like he has in the last couple of months with Hartley at his side.

 


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