International Rugby

[KRS]

I just don't get rugby. Bores the shit out of me.

For all the hype...England looked a bit crap.

[peter w]

Its very easy to be critical but it was just the first game. It takes time to build into a tournament and with one or two notable exceptions the best teams aren't the ones that get into their stride in the first game or two but build their momentum. I think the scrum is definitely an area of concern though and I agree a hooker seems to be an urgent requirement. Nice to see the lineout functioning better but they really did seem to get a free pass in this one.

But I think we are a bit remiss in not giving the Fijians a bit more credit. They were excellent in defence  and disrupted at the breakdown more than once. As paul e said a page or 2 back only those that know the game can truly spot the infringements and I must admit I was calling penalties left right and centre but nothing was mentioned so guess they must have done their job excellently well. Also, this was their World Cup Final. At Twickenham, Friday night, bodies not aching battered or bruised, and no pressure. They threw everything at it and it was always going to be tough. they probably won't have the same intensity against the Welsh or Australia but the important thing is that we walked away with 5 points.

A nod also in teh direction of Sam Burgess. the South Sea Islanders tend to play a rugby league type of game. Accept the tackle but always look for the hand off. Conservative rugby from the fitter Union players of the North is usually enough to beat them but Sam Burgess was an excellent antidote. Excellent carrying, line running, and offloading.

All in all job done.

[paul_e]

We won't win the world cup, I'm certain of that, but if we get out of the group I'll be happy because it won't be a devastating shame but will probably be enough to see Lancaster get the boot which I see as necessary for us to be the team we can be for the '19 world cup where we should be clear favourites.

Which is what we thought when Robinson got the boot.  And Brian Ashton.  And Johnno.

The one in bold was the mistake.  We should have given him the 4years from 07 to 11 to build a solid base around the younger players, instead we had Johnno trying to learn how to be a coach at the highest level and being found out it was always a bizarre appointment.  We've made largely the same mistake with Lancaster, a couple of years at Leeds and a year running the Saxons is nothing like enough experience to be a national team head coach. He got the job temporarily because when they booted Johnno the season had started and they needed someone for the 6N so rather than upset a club side they used the saxons coach.  How foten does a caretaker turn out to be a good appointment when they're made permanent in any sport?

The biggest problem England have though is that we've got a nice guy as the coach and another nice guy as the captain so as a team we're too nice, we're loyal to players who don't really deserve it, we're harshly critical of players who ruffle feathers and we doi a fucking terrible job of sticking up for ourselves.  I want a nasty bastard or 2 in squad, you really need them in rugby, it's why player like BOD and McCaw are so good, they have skills but they also don't take shit and they're willing to get dirty.

[PaulWinch again]

Pretty poor and scrappy, but I'm hoping that's down the occasion. One defensive lapse aside Burgess was brilliant when he came on. He gave us impetus moving forward along with Billy V. I thought Farrell did well as well. We'll obviously have to be a lot better, but Australia and particularly Wales won't enjoy playing Fiji.

[PaulWinch again]

Burgess has put serious questions on Barritt's place.

[PaulWinch again]

Oh look we bring on loads of sarries players and suddenly we're playing the same shit that Sarries do.

To be honest I thought they all had a positive impact on the game.

[PaulWinch again]

The main things to improve upon are intensity, control of the breakdown and discipline. You can't give away 11 turnovers and penalties.

[paul_e]

Oh look we bring on loads of sarries players and suddenly we're playing the same shit that Sarries do.

To be honest I thought they all had a positive impact on the game.

When I wrote that we were looking pretty cynical. Burgess came on just after and gave us some drive in midfield which got launchbury and Billy v to start driving on from the pack which changed the game. It was 9, 10 and 12 from a side that uses backs sparingly that frustrated me.

[Proposition Joe]

We won't win the world cup, I'm certain of that, but if we get out of the group I'll be happy because it won't be a devastating shame but will probably be enough to see Lancaster get the boot which I see as necessary for us to be the team we can be for the '19 world cup where we should be clear favourites.

Which is what we thought when Robinson got the boot.  And Brian Ashton.  And Johnno.

The one in bold was the mistake.  We should have given him the 4years from 07 to 11 to build a solid base around the younger players, instead we had Johnno trying to learn how to be a coach at the highest level and being found out it was always a bizarre appointment.  We've made largely the same mistake with Lancaster, a couple of years at Leeds and a year running the Saxons is nothing like enough experience to be a national team head coach. He got the job temporarily because when they booted Johnno the season had started and they needed someone for the 6N so rather than upset a club side they used the saxons coach.  How foten does a caretaker turn out to be a good appointment when they're made permanent in any sport?

The biggest problem England have though is that we've got a nice guy as the coach and another nice guy as the captain so as a team we're too nice, we're loyal to players who don't really deserve it, we're harshly critical of players who ruffle feathers and we doi a fucking terrible job of sticking up for ourselves.  I want a nasty bastard or 2 in squad, you really need them in rugby, it's why player like BOD and McCaw are so good, they have skills but they also don't take shit and they're willing to get dirty.

Was Brian Ashton the one who, to use a cliche, "lost the dressing" room during the World Cup in France?  Where the players ignored his tactics and chose to play stick it up yer jumper rugby for the rest of the tournament?  My memory is a bit hazy.

Anyway, what irks me about all of them is that occasionally we get performances that look like we're finally on the right track, like Cardiff in this year's 6N, but then things just end up going sour again.   Regression to the mean?  Maybe England just produces limited players - perhaps not limited in terms of raw talent, but certainly lacking smarts and "footballing brains".

[PaulWinch again]

Yeah I understand that. Burgess and Billy had a massive impact which was really encouraging and that's the first time I've seen Burgess offer something as an attacking centre. I actually thought Farrell did well and his offload to brown was outstanding.

[paul_e]

We won't win the world cup, I'm certain of that, but if we get out of the group I'll be happy because it won't be a devastating shame but will probably be enough to see Lancaster get the boot which I see as necessary for us to be the team we can be for the '19 world cup where we should be clear favourites.

Which is what we thought when Robinson got the boot.  And Brian Ashton.  And Johnno.

The one in bold was the mistake.  We should have given him the 4years from 07 to 11 to build a solid base around the younger players, instead we had Johnno trying to learn how to be a coach at the highest level and being found out it was always a bizarre appointment.  We've made largely the same mistake with Lancaster, a couple of years at Leeds and a year running the Saxons is nothing like enough experience to be a national team head coach. He got the job temporarily because when they booted Johnno the season had started and they needed someone for the 6N so rather than upset a club side they used the saxons coach.  How foten does a caretaker turn out to be a good appointment when they're made permanent in any sport?

The biggest problem England have though is that we've got a nice guy as the coach and another nice guy as the captain so as a team we're too nice, we're loyal to players who don't really deserve it, we're harshly critical of players who ruffle feathers and we doi a fucking terrible job of sticking up for ourselves.  I want a nasty bastard or 2 in squad, you really need them in rugby, it's why player like BOD and McCaw are so good, they have skills but they also don't take shit and they're willing to get dirty.

Was Brian Ashton the one who, to use a cliche, "lost the dressing" room during the World Cup in France?  Where the players ignored his tactics and chose to play stick it up yer jumper rugby for the rest of the tournament?  My memory is a bit hazy.

Anyway, what irks me about all of them is that occasionally we get performances that look like we're finally on the right track, like Cardiff in this year's 6N, but then things just end up going sour again.   Regression to the mean?  Maybe England just produces limited players - perhaps not limited in terms of raw talent, but certainly lacking smarts and "footballing brains".

Yeah, all the older players who were having a last tournament before they retired didn't want to play his way.  The issue is he set up the academy system that all the current players came through under (whilst working with Woodward) and was perfectly suited to the massive rebuild job that was needed after 2007.  By dumping him and bringing in Johnno they lost that connection to the 19-22 year olds and we ended up picking some absolute shite (Jaime fucking Noon) over the next 4 years and turning up at the world cup totally unprepared.

[paul_e]

Georgia vs Tonga is just as close as I expected, should have been 10-10 at half time but for an incredibly harsh disallowed try for Tonga.

[nigel]

I didn't realise Fiji are ranked 9th in the world these days. They're not the push overs at 15 a side these days.
Still, 11 turnovers is pretty unacceptable.
I'm putting this one down to opening the World Cup nerves.

[UK Redsox]

Georgia vs Tonga is just as close as I expected, should have been 10-10 at half time but for an incredibly harsh disallowed try for Tonga.

I was hoping to watch this whilst I'm sat in the car park waiting for the Villa game.

However ITVPlayer isn't showing the game

[cdbearsfan]

Yes it is. Click on ITV then click Watch Live.