Ditch the Drum

[KRS]

So basically the situation wouldn't have happened had one of your guys not stood on his seat? Why did you feel the need to all leave if just one person was asked to leave? Why didn't the family behind you want to swap seats so they could continue to watch without an obstructed view?

I would suggest that you need to develop better relations with the club otherwise it sounds like you're going to get kicked out of games more often than not in the seats you've decided to occupy.

[UK Redsox]

The group have moved to the front of L7, the area we've moved to is one where there was a large number of seats available so we could group together and have others join us. Remaining in L8 became untenable for us, firstly because the club would block 20 -30 seats in the area and prevent these seats from being sold, this meant that people who wanted to join us could not do so unless they bought a ticket in another area and moved over thereby risking eviction from the area. These seats were blocked because the club said that people moved over to the area without tickets, which probably did happen on a small level at one point but this was obviously made worse by the club blocking the seats. The second reason we moved was because L8 is small and peripheral and we're not able to grow there in terms of numbers and displays, L7 puts us slightly more central and closer to the action. We considered other areas of the Holte but given the number of seats available in on area and wanting to keep potential disruption to a minimal we chose the front of L7. Ideallly we'd be towards the back of L7 by the railing as when were there for the cup games last season we had a brilliant atmosphere going. This area is taken by other season ticket holders though so it's only an option during cup games.

We published the fact we'd be moving to L7 widely on social media and our forums to let others know to join us in that area. We didn't speak to the club because given their previous behaviour in blocking seats and previous conversations we'd had with them we did not feel that they would help facilitate a move.

During dire circumstances last season the club called together fans, ex players and officials to discuss what could be done to rally the club, a number of good initiatives came out of this, one of which was the decision to make L7 and L8 an offical "singing section". Standing has been common in L8 for the last 2 years, but following the decision to include L7 as part of the "singing section" there was also more standing in that area. Last night there was standing in L8, K4 and other parts of the Holte, however as far as i know we were the only ones who were targetted by the stewards. We had attention from the start and eventually we left when one fan in the section was told to leave for standing on a seat. There was a family with their daughter who understandably weren't happy about us standing, we offered to swap seats so they could see but they didn't want to, after we talked for a while we parted on amicable terms and agreed that we'd try and sort something out so that we didn't block their view again.

This situation wouldn't happen if the club were more forward thinking in helping to facilitate what we do, if the club had been more helpful in organising a section for us then you wouldn't have these situations. We've been around for 5 years now and for the large part have developed a decent relationship with the stewards and some people at the club, however last night was disappointing.

Did you try something radical, like....well...sitting down and not blocking other people's views ?

Why does your group feel entitled to special treatment from the club ?

The current rule is that fans should should remain seated, so try doing that.

Until standing areas are re-introduced, I'd like to see the all-seated rule enforced for all fans home and away. However, clubs now appear to have given up trying to get away fans to sit down.

[KRS]

I don't think you understand the concept of what Brigada are trying to do and achieve UK Redsox, and its obviously not possible to that in a seated position. The common sense thing to do would be to speak to the club and have this organised so all parties are happy, and doesn't impact or infringe upon anyone else.

[bruisedshins]

Is that area at the back of the stand by the wall?

The one we were in for the cup games? It's behind the railing, so the front of the upper section of the lower holte.

[bruisedshins]

So basically the situation wouldn't have happened had one of your guys not stood on his seat? Why did you feel the need to all leave if just one person was asked to leave? Why didn't the family behind you want to swap seats so they could continue to watch without an obstructed view?

I would suggest that you need to develop better relations with the club otherwise it sounds like you're going to get kicked out of games more often than not in the seats you've decided to occupy.

We were threatened with being booted out for standing so I don't know whether it would've happened or not if he hadn't stood on a seat. I'm not sure why the family didn't want to move, but we were on good terms with them before we left and we apologised for the inconvenience caused so it was all amicable.

We decided that if one of us was getting chucked out we'd all go.

This same situation has happened every time we've moved but it always ends up working itself out, it's just a shame we have to go through this every time but like I say staying where we were was untenable.

[KRS]

Sounds like you just need to get organised and have an official representative of the group to speak to the club. If agreements are in place then these are translated to the stewards to accommodate the group accordingly on match days. All it takes is a bit of intelligence, communication and common sense.

[UK Redsox]

I don't think you understand the concept of what Brigada are trying to do and achieve UK Redsox, and its obviously not possible to that in a seated position. The common sense thing to do would be to speak to the club and have this organised so all parties are happy, and doesn't impact or infringe upon anyone else.

I understand what they're trying to do. Its just what they're trying to do is not allowed under the current regulations. Why should they be given special treatment ?

If standing is reintroduced and an area can be set up where Brigada's standing and flag waving does not impact any other supporters (whether standing or seated), then fine**. Until then, they should sit down like everyone else is supposed to.

** my use of the word fine should in know way be construed as condoning the use of the drum, that should be banned at all times.

[Chris Jameson]

Where's that bloke who organised all the 'standers' and 'sitters' areas at Wembley when you need him?

[UK Redsox]

We were threatened with being booted out for standing so I don't know whether it would've happened or not if he hadn't stood on a seat. I'm not sure why the family didn't want to move, but we were on good terms with them before we left and we apologised for the inconvenience caused so it was all amicable.

We decided that if one of us was getting chucked out we'd all go.

This same situation has happened every time we've moved but it always ends up working itself out, it's just a shame we have to go through this every time but like I say staying where we were was untenable.

Why should they be the ones to move ? It was your group that was not abiding by ground regulations.

[ChicagoLion]

if your attitude concerning the drum is anything to go by.
you can not have one rule for you and different rules for everybody else.
why dont you ask the club for a meeting and agree to see what can be done on the basis that you agree to abide by the rules set by the club?

[KRS]

I don't think you understand the concept of what Brigada are trying to do and achieve UK Redsox, and its obviously not possible to that in a seated position. The common sense thing to do would be to speak to the club and have this organised so all parties are happy, and doesn't impact or infringe upon anyone else.

I understand what they're trying to do. Its just what they're trying to do is not allowed under the current regulations. Why should they be given special treatment ?

If standing is reintroduced and an area can be set up where Brigada's standing and flag waving does not impact any other supporters (whether standing or seated), then fine**. Until then, they should sit down like everyone else is supposed to.

** my use of the word fine should in know way be construed as condoning the use of the drum, that should be banned at all times.

The bold bit is where your argument falls down I'm afraid...literally a few thousand ppl stand at most games regardless of the current regulations that everyone *should* sit down. The argument works both ways...why should Brigada be forced to sit down and observe the current regulations unless its enforced around the ground.

A simple example of this was last night...I stood in K5 all throughout the game with no issues with the ppl behind me (having spoken to them before kick off) and the stewards didn't bat an eye lid to me or hundreds of other fans standing. If the stewards enforce sitting for both home and away fans around the ground then I would agree that Brigada should sit down also, but they don't.

The only issue I have with any of this is that Brigada can easily avoid these scenarios by simple communication with the club and consideration for others rather than just expecting ppl to either join in or not complain about their view being restricted.

[Witton Warrior]

The "singing section" has, for the 40 years I have attended, been from the centre rear of the Holte downwards - have never seen anything from the club about official "singing sections" - when did they agree that?

Agree that the Club and Brigada should sort this outas it is potentially positive to have vociferous support in as many sections of the ground as possible

[bruisedshins]

Sounds like you just need to get organised and have an official representative of the group to speak to the club. If agreements are in place then these are translated to the stewards to accommodate the group accordingly on match days. All it takes is a bit of intelligence, communication and common sense.

Believe me we've tried, there are some sections of the club that are very happy to work with us and others that are less so, sadly the latter have the clout when it comes to this particular issue.

Witton Warrior, i'm not a fan of the idea of a "singing section" either, such an idea suggests that you have to be sat in a particular area to sing which is of course nonsense and the whole ground is and should be vocal anyway but this is just what the club termed it. It was publicised on the official site sometime last April i think.

[amfy]

The club managed to move long term season ticket holders from central sections of The Trinity a few years ago in order to increase corporate seating. So there is precedent for moving existing ST holders when there is a will to.

They could therefore, if they chose, move existing season ticket holders to create a 'singing' section in an area where it would work. They could potentially offer existing ST holders an option to go or stay, & maybe incentivise a move for those who don 't want to be in it. There'll be a bit of a  backlash from those who don't want to be in it & don't want to move, but experience does show that people get over this kind of stuff.

The difficult bit is how to word the move so that it isn't obvious that the club are condoning standing - you can't use the euphemism of 'singing section' when you are trying to advise people that they are positioned in a 'standing' zone because it needs to be clear (but not too clear)

Until the rules on standing change, this is pretty tricky to negotiate. I think he club want Brigada to work out, but they cannot be seen to condone standing while it isn't allowed. Brigada are great, but they don't do subtle, & this is always going to make it tough.

[cdbearsfan]

Maybe we could get around the rules by having a designated Really Tall Sitting section? When the Council moan that people are standing we just say "no, they ARE sitting, they're just really tall".

Problem solved.