Jordan Amavi - gone again

[paul_e]

But if you want to see more of Lyden then do you think signing Whelan as cover/competition for Jedinak is a good idea?  If you want to see RHM and Davis then is signing Crouch as our 5th first team striker a good idea?  Green is probably better on the right so is signing Elmo and pushing Green to the left a good idea?

[old man villa fan]

He's so rubbish it's only smallfry like Sevilla who are desperate enough to take him off our hands.

Wouldn't surprise me if within 2/3 years Amavi, Gueye and Veretout are all playing Champions League football.   Would surprise me if we're saying the same about Neil Taylor, Glen Whelan and Elmohamady.

That's great, but it's what happens this season in the Championship that is more of a concern to us really. 

Downgrading the playing staff and hoping to do better isn't the way to go really.

Downgrading?

I'm not sure I've seen anything of Amavi that would indicate he's half as good as the excellent Taylor.

Absolutely, hence Taylor moving to one of the most successful clubs in Europe over the last few seasons for £8m so he can play in the Champions League next season.

Actually hang on...

Amavi might have potential, we've not seen It, certainly not defensively. Hes nowhere near as good as Taylor, who many were wrong about.

Taylor is, in his prime, a fairly competent Championship defender who nobody better than us wanted to buy. Which is why we're the team that bought him. He'll carry on being fine for somewhere between the 15th and 35th best team in the country for another five years or so.

Amavi is a young player who has had a couple of the most important years of his development buggered by a couple of unfortunate factors, who has still shown enough in the couple of years that he's played, that one of the most successful teams in Europe of the last few years want to spend £8m on him.

Which is still fine, good luck to all three parties - there clearly isn't going to be a place for him in our Glenn Whelan / Alan Hutton / Meat / Potatoes Dream Team, so we may as well have the cash rather than bothering to try and make a young player better.

We don't really seem to have the tools to try to coach young players, so we're probably better off letting them go somewhere to get better, and we'll just buy Premier League reserves.

It's basically all Amavi's fault. Or Grealish's fault. Or Gueye's fault. Or Veretout's fault. Or Gil's fault. Or Gollini's fault. Or Tshibola's fault. Or the fault of anybody, as long as we don't have to think about the club having to take any responsibility to the development of a 21 year old player. They turned up as a 21 year old to a shit team with shit coaches, it's basically their own problem that they weren't brilliant.

Still, there's probably a 32 year old in Huddersfield's reserves they don't need now they've been promoted. Much easier that way.

Totally agree Dave.  At the end of the day, it is the manager who controls how players develop by the way they approach the game and how they manage other players in the squad.  I always have the feeling that some fans consider a player leaving the club similar to their wife/husband or girlfriend/boyfriend walking out on them.

I think that a move away is the best for all concerned.  It was clear to me that as soon as Bruce walked in through the door he wanted Amavi and Ayew out of the club.  If the manager does not want to use players that have financial value, you may as well sell them.  People play down the injury Amavi had and what it takes to get back from it.  He will have put a lot of effort into getting back to fitness and usually there is a point when fatigue sets in and the player either stagnates or goes backwards a bit before going again.  I wish him well and hope we have a sell one clause agreed, as well as appearance based add-ons.

[Toronto Villa]

The constant chopping and changing at the club hasn't helped any of our players develop, whether they are coming out of the academies or of a more senior status. Add to that the changing of managerial philosophies. We don't have a way of playing that any of us can really associate with. It's been many wasted years and we've spent a lot of money on players with very little ROI, with the obvious exception being Benteke.

[eamonn]

Xia appears to have rubbished the Crouch rumour on Twitter. However he did also tweet "It's need good balance as getting promotion is also critical task for us. Experience can save some mistakes and time."

[tomd2103]

But if you want to see more of Lyden then do you think signing Whelan as cover/competition for Jedinak is a good idea?  If you want to see RHM and Davis then is signing Crouch as our 5th first team striker a good idea?  Green is probably better on the right so is signing Elmo and pushing Green to the left a good idea?

I thought Lyden should have had more game time last season in the defensive midfield role as an understudy to Jedinak.  As I've said before, I'm not sold on Whelan because I' m not sure he will fit in to the formation I would like to see us play. 

A striker like Crouch is a must for me as we don't have that type of striker at the club.  Crouch (or someone like him), Kodjia, Hogan, RHM and Davis would be a good pool of striking options, with McCormack and Agbonlahor being expendable. 

If Elmo signs and is to be used as a wide player, then it will again give us some options.  Green proved last year that he is comfortable on both flanks, but young players need a rest sometimes so we could rotate with Adomah in the mix as well as Grealish and Kodjia being able to play out wide if needed. 

[ChicagoLion]

I very much agree with Dave, the concern is that Bruce will try and by promotion by the old pro route and by chucking a team together.
Even if the promised
And of promotion is reached, which I doubt.
This club will be no further forward.

[pauliewalnuts]

I very much agree with Dave, the concern is that Bruce will try and by promotion by the old pro route and by chucking a team together.
Even if the promised
And of promotion is reached, which I doubt.
This club will be no further forward.

How is it possible to be no further forward if we are in the league above where we are now?

[ChicagoLion]

I very much agree with Dave, the concern is that Bruce will try and by promotion by the old pro route and by chucking a team together.
Even if the promised
And of promotion is reached, which I doubt.
This club will be no further forward.

How is it possible to be no further forward if we are in the league above where we are now?

In terms of having an identity and strategy, but I know what you mean.

[passitsideways]

Strangely enough, the approach Burnley appears to have taken the past three years may be something we'd have to hope for - they scraped a promotion, didn't overextend themselves trying to stay up but instead made sure that they at least had themselves fully prepared to come straight back up, and second time around, they appear to have stabilised themselves. Although obviously with a club of their size, they'll always be looking over their shoulder at the drop zone.

If we do promoted, I think we really do need to be sensible at least at first - not so many over 30s, but also not too many high-price mercenaries who would fuck off after 12 months should we not managed to survive.

[Clampy]

I very much agree with Dave, the concern is that Bruce will try and by promotion by the old pro route and by chucking a team together.
Even if the promised
And of promotion is reached, which I doubt.
This club will be no further forward.

How is it possible to be no further forward if we are in the league above where we are now?

I think what he's trying to say is, even if Bruce get's us promoted, he won't give him any credit for it.

[ChicagoLion]

I very much agree with Dave, the concern is that Bruce will try and by promotion by the old pro route and by chucking a team together.
Even if the promised
And of promotion is reached, which I doubt.
This club will be no further forward.

How is it possible to be no further forward if we are in the league above where we are now?

I think what he's trying to say is, even if Bruce get's us promoted, he won't give him any credit for it.

Not quite, I am trying to say that buying short term fixes is short termism.
As is dispensing with talent as opposed to nurturing it, Grealish next, to be replaced by Whelan.

[Matt Collins]

If we are going 352 then we need more centre backs and centre midfielders and fewer wide players and full backs

So eg Jedinak and whelan as DCM, plus Lansbury, hourihane, Thor and Lyden as the other options. Happy  I let Tshibola and Gardner go

Chester Terry and baker plus (Richards? Elphick? Can bree play there? Even Taylor? Jedinak? De Laet?)

In a back three, having someone who can also play full back is really helpful as it gives more balance (e.g. Azpilcueta, Staunton, etc)

[tomd2103]

Strangely enough, the approach Burnley appears to have taken the past three years may be something we'd have to hope for - they scraped a promotion, didn't overextend themselves trying to stay up but instead made sure that they at least had themselves fully prepared to come straight back up, and second time around, they appear to have stabilised themselves. Although obviously with a club of their size, they'll always be looking over their shoulder at the drop zone.

If we do promoted, I think we really do need to be sensible at least at first - not so many over 30s, but also not too many high-price mercenaries who would fuck off after 12 months should we not managed to survive.

Part of the problem is the terrible state we came down in and the need for a total rebuild.  If you look at Newcastle for example, they didn't need a massive rebuild.  They just sold a couple of players, used the money to bring in some players who were going to help get them up and now probably just need to add a bit of quality here and there.  The fact that we have had to rebuild completely was a major problem. 

Ideally, you want the rest of the side solid enough so that you are only really having to add a few quality players to the spine of the side if you do go up.   

[Gareth]

If you believe everything you read on the Twittersphere he has failed his medical

[tomd2103]

If we are going 352 then we need more centre backs and centre midfielders and fewer wide players and full backs

So eg Jedinak and whelan as DCM, plus Lansbury, hourihane, Thor and Lyden as the other options. Happy  I let Tshibola and Gardner go

Chester Terry and baker plus (Richards? Elphick? Can bree play there? Even Taylor? Jedinak? De Laet?)

In a back three, having someone who can also play full back is really helpful as it gives more balance (e.g. Azpilcueta, Staunton, etc)

I could definitely see Jedinak dropping into a back three if we go with that formation.  Could be something like:

                                          Johnstone

                Chester               Jedinak             Terry

El Ahmadi                            Whelan                           Taylor

                            Lansbury                Hourihane

                            Kodjia                    Hogan