Summer 2015 - Transfer Rumours, Speculation & Suggestions

[paul_e]

The problem wasn't the fact that we bought players for 1 or 2m and they almost all tanked.

It was that they were the players we were buying to actually play games. If we'd bought them as back up for 1m and sold them later for the same, then we'd have broken even on the fee (although we've incurred the wages cost), true. The problem is that too often those players were expected to play a lot of games, and were failures.

In that sense, the problem wasn't so much those players, the ones we did sign, it was the ones we didn't sign.

Also that they were all thrown in at the same time.  We could probably have coped with 2, maybe even 3 starting if they were surrounded by experience at that level.  The most experienced signing in Lambert's first 2 years was probably Vlaar, and he spent the first 6 months struggling to adapt to the pace and intensity of the PL.
Of the team that started his first game against West Ham, the only PL experienced players were Given and N'Zogbia.

This is really the point.  To just look at the recruitment and say it was shit is narrowing things too much.  As I said, buying these players wasn't the problem, it was how he used them afterwards that caused issues.  Right back for example, if in that first season he'd alternated between Hutton and Lowton and worked hard on the training ground with Lowton things could have turned out differently.  Same with Warnock and Bennett on the other side.  That's not even to say that I rate Hutton or Warnock (Hutton did ok last season but I still think he's a liability) just that when you have senior players already and you sign kids from the lower leagues in the same position getting them to fight for their place for a year is probably a good idea instead of throwing the kids into the first team and making the older players train with the reserves.

[mike]

Not at all but if you're going to go after £1m gambles the 2nd best outcome is getting your money back so I think labeling our recruitment as a massive failure is unwarranted.  There have been failures in there but in general Lambert was ok at that bit.  making a successful team out of the players he got was where he struggled, his record of destroying any potential in fullbacks was the crowning glory of his time with us, Bertrands start, fall and rise at Southampton should show just how shit Lambert was in that area.

I've made it pretty clear that I think our recruitment should focus on the best young players we can afford and trying to get 2-3 of them every season.  That way if we see 1-2 leave for big money and 1-2 fail we're building a conveyor belt of talent where the chances are that we'll always make profits.  The odd thing is mon tried to dabble in that market and was hugely successful with it (Young, Milner, Delph, Davies being the obvious exception), but he ruined it by also spending huge sums on players who had no resale value.  We're not in the right place to implement that strategy yet so people like Richards coming in are good because they have quality and experience and are young enough to be around for 4-5 years to serve as the cornerstones of this type of strategy.

Lambert’s recruiting was so inconsistent though, especially in the full-back area. We’ll never really know why we opted to go for Joe Bennett instead of Cresswell, but it proved to be an absolutely terrible decision. But then to ditch Bennett after one season for an unknown Spanish full-back, to then loaning a very attack-minded one, who he then ditched for a well-travelled, but very defence-minded full-back was utterly bizarre and, in my opinion, very poor recruitment. I’d be very surprised if we get our money back on these 3 too.

Then there’s the right-back situation where we’ve switched from an unproven League One full-back, to an unknown Dutch winger (converted) to an actually established right-back who was our player all along, but who we were trying everything to get off our wage-bill. Whilst this has been going on, the team has spent 3 consecutive seasons hanging on in the Premiership by the skin of its teeth.

I’m sorry, but  can’t see how this can possibly be considered anything other than dreadful recruiting.

I agree, I've never understood the idea that Lambert is a recruitment genius just because he spotted Benteke. Most of his signings have been crap and it will be demonstrated next season when virtually none of them are regular starters.

[paul_e]

I agree, I've never understood the idea that Lambert is a recruitment genius just because he spotted Benteke. Most of his signings have been crap and it will be demonstrated next season when virtually none of them are regular starters.

I don't think anyone is saying he's a genius, I'm certainly not and I hope it doesn't come across like that.  The point is that his recruitment was better than his coaching and day-to-day management, so the players he picked aren't as bad as he made them look.  The truth is if we sold every player he bought in we'd end up in profit from the money he spent, after seeing mon, houllier (to a much lesser extent) and McLeish waste money on all kinds of shit that we've had to let go on Bosmans because no one would take them off us I'm ok with that.

[supertom]

I agree, I've never understood the idea that Lambert is a recruitment genius just because he spotted Benteke. Most of his signings have been crap and it will be demonstrated next season when virtually none of them are regular starters.

I don't think anyone is saying he's a genius, I'm certainly not and I hope it doesn't come across like that.  The point is that his recruitment was better than his coaching and day-to-day management, so the players he picked aren't as bad as he made them look.  The truth is if we sold every player he bought in we'd end up in profit from the money he spent, after seeing mon, houllier (to a much lesser extent) and McLeish waste money on all kinds of shit that we've had to let go on Bosmans because no one would take them off us I'm ok with that.

I think McLeish once tried to claim that Benteke was on our radar before he was fired (pinch of salt I know). Didn't the scout who found Benteke leave before the following summer?

I'd rather let good scouts find gems for us, as opposed to the manager. The manager should be concentrating at what's on the pitch. Of course he must give the final yes, or no as to whether we do sign someone on the shopping list.

[RussellC]

Hasn't Paddy Reilly been credited with a lot of the scouting during Lambert's tenure?

[OCD]

I agree, I've never understood the idea that Lambert is a recruitment genius just because he spotted Benteke. Most of his signings have been crap and it will be demonstrated next season when virtually none of them are regular starters.

I don't think anyone is saying he's a genius, I'm certainly not and I hope it doesn't come across like that.  The point is that his recruitment was better than his coaching and day-to-day management, so the players he picked aren't as bad as he made them look.  The truth is if we sold every player he bought in we'd end up in profit from the money he spent, after seeing mon, houllier (to a much lesser extent) and McLeish waste money on all kinds of shit that we've had to let go on Bosmans because no one would take them off us I'm ok with that.

I think McLeish once tried to claim that Benteke was on our radar before he was fired (pinch of salt I know). Didn't the scout who found Benteke leave before the following summer?

I'd rather let good scouts find gems for us, as opposed to the manager. The manager should be concentrating at what's on the pitch. Of course he must give the final yes, or no as to whether we do sign someone on the shopping list.

The story was that Lambert was actually at a Genk game to watch Vossen and Benteke happened to be playing and stood out as the one to sign.

[KevinGage]

Not at all but if you're going to go after £1m gambles the 2nd best outcome is getting your money back so I think labeling our recruitment as a massive failure is unwarranted.  There have been failures in there but in general Lambert was ok at that bit.  making a successful team out of the players he got was where he struggled, his record of destroying any potential in fullbacks was the crowning glory of his time with us, Bertrands start, fall and rise at Southampton should show just how shit Lambert was in that area.

I've made it pretty clear that I think our recruitment should focus on the best young players we can afford and trying to get 2-3 of them every season.  That way if we see 1-2 leave for big money and 1-2 fail we're building a conveyor belt of talent where the chances are that we'll always make profits.  The odd thing is mon tried to dabble in that market and was hugely successful with it (Young, Milner, Delph, Davies being the obvious exception), but he ruined it by also spending huge sums on players who had no resale value.

I'd agree with a lot of that.

Cast your minds back to 2006 and there was talk on here and elsewhere that we'd be targeting Thierry Henry and the like in a few years.

I didn't expect that from RL, but what I did hope for -and what we actually did for a while- was that there would be enough money in the pot to sign up and coming players. In contrast to the latter part of the Ellis years, when we were signing over the hill has beens or budget priced never gonna be's. 

We seem to have gone full circle on that.

The Young deal in particular was a template for the sort of business we sould be doing -and could still have done- even with FFP/ The growth of Man Citeh and any other cop out Lerner and co have hidden behind in recent years. 

I didn't have an issue with the Young and Hungry mantra that was all the rage in 2013. My concern was that it essentially meant young and cheap.  They need to be young and hungry -and good enough in the first place.  That usually costs more.

[eamonn]

I imagine it's very easy at this point to link us with anybody that's even driven through N17.

I would imagine any member of The Saw Doctors would be an improvement at left back.

Christ,  I hate The Saw Doctors. Probably as much as I hate Stephen Ireland.

You have to get behind me in the hate queue for those pair Ger.

Why? I Usedta Love Her is a classic.

[john e]

I'd take Townsend and Huddleston. Trippier off to Spurs, so Walker to us as well please. Not a bad shopping list.

My main problem with signing Huddlestone would be that we'd have yet another player whose name people refused to spell properly 😉

I've never had a problem with Humblestones name

[LeeB]

I'd take Townsend and Huddleston. Trippier off to Spurs, so Walker to us as well please. Not a bad shopping list.

My main problem with signing Huddlestone would be that we'd have yet another player whose name people refused to spell properly 😉

I've never had a problem with Humblestones name

Me either Joan.

[john e]

Well one thing is for certain if there is any truth in us Looking at Townsend and Huddleston after signing Richards it makes a difference in the actual quality and spend that we have been used to over the last few years

[footyskillz]

Hearing about engliush players ..whatever happened to mceachran and lesser extent Nick Powell. Eng Under 21 players tonight some will go down same route when touted so early to be world beaters. Ones who really stand out make in Europe verratti of Italy and psg proven where as Powell and mceachran nothing. Frustrat ing that players in UK get built up ridiculously the under21s tonight and in tournament some in 3-5 years will be already looking back at what could have been. Remember albrighton and delfoneso and Craig Gardner before use to perform at this level and haven't reached massive heights. Holtby at Spurs and kaboul both captains haven't achieved whgat vwas expected so not just all English players .
Anyway my point is reading names of Townsend, Richards, huddleton reminds of under 21 players who were hyped

[pauliewalnuts]

I'd take Townsend and Huddleston. Trippier off to Spurs, so Walker to us as well please. Not a bad shopping list.

My main problem with signing Huddlestone would be that we'd have yet another player whose name people refused to spell properly 😉

I've never had a problem with Humblestones name

Me either Joan.

Ha ha, nice one, Lea.

[RussellC]

I din't realise that we'd brought Tony Coton in as part of the Scouting set-up?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/aston-villa-appoint-former-manchester-5525581

Neither did I realise that he used to be Tom Heaton's agent...

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11661/5705312/heaton-seeks-united-exit

A few Twitterers are putting 2 + 2 together. In this case, I'd be quite pleased if they were right.

[Dr Butler]

Hearing about engliush players ..whatever happened to mceachran and lesser extent Nick Powell. Eng Under 21 players tonight some will go down same route when touted so early to be world beaters. Ones who really stand out make in Europe verratti of Italy and psg proven where as Powell and mceachran nothing. Frustrat ing that players in UK get built up ridiculously the under21s tonight and in tournament some in 3-5 years will be already looking back at what could have been. Remember albrighton and delfoneso and Craig Gardner before use to perform at this level and haven't reached massive heights. Holtby at Spurs and kaboul both captains haven't achieved whgat vwas expected so not just all English players .
Anyway my point is reading names of Townsend, Richards, huddleton reminds of under 21 players who were hyped

blimey I'm no English Language/Literature master but....

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