The Cricket Thread 2016

[tomd2103]

Rashid out for 99 today, he took 8 wickets in the last match. He's a genuine all rounder these days, excellent fielder too.

If Bell continues to struggle could move Ali back up to 3 and bring Rashid in to bat at 8.

I think that could be a good option.

Why is that a surprise!!  Moeen Ali is OK where he is, as he needs to work on developing his bowling. 

It shouldn't be, someone who's batted his entire career in the top 3 really is too good to be at 8 so looking at ways to push him higher up the order just seems to be good sense to me.  My only worry is that with Moeen, Root and Stokes at 4, 5 and 6 we could end up with too many bowling options but what I'd really like to see is a call up for a bowler (spinner or quick) who can do 10-12 over spells at one end so at the other we can rotate between Anderson, Broad, Wood and Stokes all getting 3-4 over spells so they can put everything into it.  Moeen should be able to do that as well so have 2 rotating at one end and then the others getting short spells at the other end, with Root filling in where needed.

Sorry Paul, but if Moeen is going to be considered primarily on his batting there are better options in county cricket.  He is in the side as the first choice spinner and batting at eight will allow him to concentrate on that.

[PaulWinch again]

I don't think Moeen's batting should be sniffed at. He's scored two 50s and a 40 in his last four innings. Most importantly he's been involved in some vital partnerships.

[tomd2103]

I don't think Moeen's batting should be sniffed at. He's scored two 50s and a 40 in his last four innings. Most importantly he's been involved in some vital partnerships.

Oh I agree Paul, but while his potential as a bowler is being worked on, batting at eight might suit him.

Interesting article on Moeen that is worth a read:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/blogs/content/story/881433.html

[paul_e]

but he's not being considered solely on his batting, he's being picked as an all-rounder, and he's doing well enough in both aspects.  I get the point you're trying to make but, for me, it's a little out of date. T20 has changed the game and one of the things that's come from that is that having 2-3 batting all-rounders is becoming much more common, Stokes is one, Moeen is another and Root has enough of a golden arm to be considered as a third.  Fitting those 3 into our top 7 means we can still have a bowling all rounder or 2 (such as Jordan or Rashid) and have space to pick a couple of rabbits.  Flexibility is much more valuable now than it was before, if that means we play on pitch where it's moving in the air and Moeen doesn't need to bowl then so be it, in the past we'd have bowled Swann regardless because we had no choice.  If that gets balanced out by games where he's brought on after 10 over and does a third of the bowling to himself then even better.

If his batting turns out to not be good enough to be in the top 4 then ok we can move him back (or if the guy we brought in down the order is looking good maybe replace him) but right now, if Bell can't sort himself out, I'd rather see Moeen in at 4 and Kerrigan or Rashid in down the order than see another batsman (such as Taylor) called in.  To me Moeen is too good to be batting at 8, it's nice having him down there to cover for a top order collapse but I don't think that's a long term strategy.

[tomd2103]

but he's not being considered solely on his batting, he's being picked as an all-rounder, and he's doing well enough in both aspects.  I get the point you're trying to make but, for me, it's a little out of date. T20 has changed the game and one of the things that's come from that is that having 2-3 batting all-rounders is becoming much more common, Stokes is one, Moeen is another and Root has enough of a golden arm to be considered as a third.  Fitting those 3 into our top 7 means we can still have a bowling all rounder or 2 (such as Jordan or Rashid) and have space to pick a couple of rabbits.  Flexibility is much more valuable now than it was before, if that means we play on pitch where it's moving in the air and Moeen doesn't need to bowl then so be it, in the past we'd have bowled Swann regardless because we had no choice.  If that gets balanced out by games where he's brought on after 10 over and does a third of the bowling to himself then even better.

If his batting turns out to not be good enough to be in the top 4 then ok we can move him back (or if the guy we brought in down the order is looking good maybe replace him) but right now, if Bell can't sort himself out, I'd rather see Moeen in at 4 and Kerrigan or Rashid in down the order than see another batsman (such as Taylor) called in.  To me Moeen is too good to be batting at 8, it's nice having him down there to cover for a top order collapse but I don't think that's a long term strategy.

I'm not sold on that idea at all, but I guess we'll see.  I think the line up we have now should probably stay in place to start the Ashes.  I also think the reporting of Ian Bell's decline are very premature indeed, especially as he scored a big hundred only a few games ago.  I think him, Cook and Ballance should return to county cricket after this test series ends to get themselves ready for the Australians.

[paul_e]

but he's not being considered solely on his batting, he's being picked as an all-rounder, and he's doing well enough in both aspects.  I get the point you're trying to make but, for me, it's a little out of date. T20 has changed the game and one of the things that's come from that is that having 2-3 batting all-rounders is becoming much more common, Stokes is one, Moeen is another and Root has enough of a golden arm to be considered as a third.  Fitting those 3 into our top 7 means we can still have a bowling all rounder or 2 (such as Jordan or Rashid) and have space to pick a couple of rabbits.  Flexibility is much more valuable now than it was before, if that means we play on pitch where it's moving in the air and Moeen doesn't need to bowl then so be it, in the past we'd have bowled Swann regardless because we had no choice.  If that gets balanced out by games where he's brought on after 10 over and does a third of the bowling to himself then even better.

If his batting turns out to not be good enough to be in the top 4 then ok we can move him back (or if the guy we brought in down the order is looking good maybe replace him) but right now, if Bell can't sort himself out, I'd rather see Moeen in at 4 and Kerrigan or Rashid in down the order than see another batsman (such as Taylor) called in.  To me Moeen is too good to be batting at 8, it's nice having him down there to cover for a top order collapse but I don't think that's a long term strategy.

I'm not sold on that idea at all, but I guess we'll see.  I think the line up we have now should probably stay in place to start the Ashes.  I also think the reporting of Ian Bell's decline are very premature indeed, especially as he scored a big hundred only a few games ago.  I think him, Cook and Ballance should return to county cricket after this test series ends to get themselves ready for the Australians.

Regarding Bell I hope you're right but he's hanging on a bit at the minute, 185 runs in 7 innings this year but 143 of those came in 1 innings, so without that his average is 7, he needs to get back to where he's been before which is 30-40 on a 'bad'  day and then the centuries pushing his average up to 45ish.  He had a similar problem last summer where over a 3rd of his runs for the 7 tests came in 1 innings and there were too many single figure scores in between, and that was on the back of a very disappointing ashes series down under so it's nearly 2 years of getting out cheap far too often.  It's the same cumulative under-performance that has made Cook feel some pressure, I hope Bell can respond the same way but as a team we really need to think about how long we let someone under-perform before dropping them, Prior, for example, lived on past glories for about 2 years before he made the decision to retire, I don't think he was genuinely under any threat if he had wanted to stay.

[tomd2103]

but he's not being considered solely on his batting, he's being picked as an all-rounder, and he's doing well enough in both aspects.  I get the point you're trying to make but, for me, it's a little out of date. T20 has changed the game and one of the things that's come from that is that having 2-3 batting all-rounders is becoming much more common, Stokes is one, Moeen is another and Root has enough of a golden arm to be considered as a third.  Fitting those 3 into our top 7 means we can still have a bowling all rounder or 2 (such as Jordan or Rashid) and have space to pick a couple of rabbits.  Flexibility is much more valuable now than it was before, if that means we play on pitch where it's moving in the air and Moeen doesn't need to bowl then so be it, in the past we'd have bowled Swann regardless because we had no choice.  If that gets balanced out by games where he's brought on after 10 over and does a third of the bowling to himself then even better.

If his batting turns out to not be good enough to be in the top 4 then ok we can move him back (or if the guy we brought in down the order is looking good maybe replace him) but right now, if Bell can't sort himself out, I'd rather see Moeen in at 4 and Kerrigan or Rashid in down the order than see another batsman (such as Taylor) called in.  To me Moeen is too good to be batting at 8, it's nice having him down there to cover for a top order collapse but I don't think that's a long term strategy.

I'm not sold on that idea at all, but I guess we'll see.  I think the line up we have now should probably stay in place to start the Ashes.  I also think the reporting of Ian Bell's decline are very premature indeed, especially as he scored a big hundred only a few games ago.  I think him, Cook and Ballance should return to county cricket after this test series ends to get themselves ready for the Australians.

Regarding Bell I hope you're right but he's hanging on a bit at the minute, 185 runs in 7 innings this year but 143 of those came in 1 innings, so without that his average is 7, he needs to get back to where he's been before which is 30-40 on a 'bad'  day and then the centuries pushing his average up to 45ish.  He had a similar problem last summer where over a 3rd of his runs for the 7 tests came in 1 innings and there were too many single figure scores in between, and that was on the back of a very disappointing ashes series down under so it's nearly 2 years of getting out cheap far too often.  It's the same cumulative under-performance that has made Cook feel some pressure, I hope Bell can respond the same way but as a team we really need to think about how long we let someone under-perform before dropping them, Prior, for example, lived on past glories for about 2 years before he made the decision to retire, I don't think he was genuinely under any threat if he had wanted to stay.

Agree with that.  A culture of comfort has developed around the England team at times and I just wonder how much central contracting has to do with it.  After all, if a player is on a central contract, they are hardly going to be too keen to shelve him while they are still being paying him (unles there a stipulations that deal with that).  As I said before, I think Ian Bell should return to Warwickshire after this test series (not just saying that as a Bears fan!!) and get himself ready for the Ashes.  Unless there are some major issues in the mean time, I could see this line up being the one that faces the Aussies in the first test.   

[UK Redsox]

I don't think Moeen's batting should be sniffed at. He's scored two 50s and a 40 in his last four innings. Most importantly he's been involved in some vital partnerships.

Oh I agree Paul, but while his potential as a bowler is being worked on, batting at eight might suit him.

Interesting article on Moeen that is worth a read:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/blogs/content/story/881433.html

Hopefully as he drops down the order, Moeen's batting won't go the same way as Broad's

[PaulWinch again]

I agree with that article. His bowling record is very good. He didn't have a great time in the Windies, but he was coming back from injury. He scored 100 runs in the last Test and took 4 wickets. That's a pretty useful contribution. Cook needs to bowl him more and he'll get better and better.

[tomd2103]

I agree with that article. His bowling record is very good. He didn't have a great time in the Windies, but he was coming back from injury. He scored 100 runs in the last Test and took 4 wickets. That's a pretty useful contribution. Cook needs to bowl him more and he'll get better and better.

Agree that Cook should bowl him more, but he has history of not using his spinners.  With the Ashes in mind, Moeen is another one who would benefit from returning to county cricket after this test and getting plenty of overs under his belt.  He will probably be required for the ODI team though.     

[PaulWinch again]

I agree it's a failing of Cook's. Ali is basically learning in the international arena.

[tomd2103]

I agree it's a failing of Cook's. Ali is basically learning in the international arena.

Agree.  One thing that stood out from the article on him was just how few overs he had bowled in his first ten tests compared to the other names mentioned.  If he's not going to bowl that much in tests, then he needs to be back at Worcester as much as possible in beteween. 

[PaulWinch again]

Jimmy 400 up.

[PaulWinch again]

2-2 Williamson gone.

[tomd2103]

Jimmy 400 up.

Congrats to Jimmy.  Great achievement.