The Cricket Thread 2016

[PaulWinch again]

I agree he has potential to be a properly quick, wicket taking bowler.

[PaulWinch again]

Sounds like Saker is leaving.

[taylorsworkrate]

The point about Jordan's drop in place is really an indictment of our whole system.

When you look at Johnson and Starc bowling regularly between 92 and 95 mph, bowlers like Steyn, and even a Bangladesh bowler being quicker than all of our seamers, then what the fuck is going on here?

We have 18 counties in our domestic system. Is there really not one bowler in the country that can bowl genuinely quickly?

[Colhint]

You can't drop Bell from the OD team. He's having to hold it back because he knows we have an underperforming middle order. If he goes for a big bash and gets out early we'll be out for about 150

[PaulWinch again]

The point about Jordan's drop in place is really an indictment of our whole system.

When you look at Johnson and Starc bowling regularly between 92 and 95 mph, bowlers like Steyn, and even a Bangladesh bowler being quicker than all of our seamers, then what the fuck is going on here?

We have 18 counties in our domestic system. Is there really not one bowler in the country that can bowl genuinely quickly?

It's all about English conditions making it easy for medium pace bowlers. We need to find players who are prepared to go that extra yard and bowl short sharp spells of fast bowling. It's also up to the coaches. We place far too much emphasis on bowling economically rather than taking wickets.

[PaulWinch again]

You can't drop Bell from the OD team. He's having to hold it back because he knows we have an underperforming middle order. If he goes for a big bash and gets out early we'll be out for about 150

That might be a plausible argument if he'd played 20 ODIs. But he's had a long career and he's had a consistently low strike rate and a terrible conversion rate from 50 to 100. That's the one combination you can't have in ODIs. You either have to score quickly or you have to score centuries. Preferably you can do both, but it's critical you do at least one element of those. He's a classy player, but he's not an ODI player.

[paul_e]

Bell's issues are around pacing.  If he starts quick he can score at a good rate but if he tries to accelerate mid innings he tends to snatch at things that aren't really on.

[PaulWinch again]

Yep and given his level of experience he really should have worked out a method to address that.

[paul_e]

Yep and given his level of experience he really should have worked out a method to address that.

Yes, but given it's, in real terms, the difference between him being very good and world class I can live with that limitation, it's less of a problem than many others in the squad have.

[PaulWinch again]

I just think given that we should be looking at the next World Cup now(like NZ did four years ago) Bell doesn't offer enough to continue. I think at his age he'd have to offer an awful lot to keep him in the side. He doesn't have a good strike rate, average or conversion rate. He's a quality Test player, but the ODI team needs to move on. The same applies to Anderson.

[paul_e]

I just think given that we should be looking at the next World Cup now(like NZ did four years ago) Bell doesn't offer enough to continue. I think at his age he'd have to offer an awful lot to keep him in the side. He doesn't have a good strike rate, average or conversion rate. He's a quality Test player, but the ODI team needs to move on. The same applies to Anderson.

I agree on the goal but not on the execution.  As Villa fans we've seen full well what happens if you remove all the experience and try to rely on youngsters as a 'clean cut' you tend to have a lot of problems.  Keeping a couple of the more experienced guys around and transitioning them out in 18 months is the approach for me.  Of the older players who need to go thge only one who isn't holding the team back is Bell, so he's the one I'd keep for definite, then you're looking at 1 of jimmy, broad, tredwell and bopara and I'm really not sure about any of them but Tredwell would probably be my choice, Broad and Jimmy are needed in the test side and I don't think they can handle being in both formats and I just don't rate Bopara.

[PaulWinch again]

I'd argue Bell holds back an opening partnership of Ali and Hales, and if you keep him in the team he has to be number three and then that messes Taylor about. Like I said I just don't think he offers enough unless he wants to be 12th man in and around the squad who plays if someone is unavailable. Tredwell, I agree, still has a role.

[paul_e]

I'd argue Bell holds back an opening partnership of Ali and Hales, and if you keep him in the team he has to be number three and then that messes Taylor about. Like I said I just don't think he offers enough unless he wants to be 12th man in and around the squad who plays if someone is unavailable. Tredwell, I agree, still has a role.

I guess fundamentally I'm not as convinced by Taylor as you are, I still think he has a lot to prove.  Hales and Ali both going out strong with Bell to come in and steady the ship if one goes down early seems fair, if they get to 15-20overs in then you look at bringing Taylor or Root up the order and keep the pressure on in the middle overs.  That's the sort of tactical flexibility I'd like to see.

[tomd2103]

The point about Jordan's drop in place is really an indictment of our whole system.

When you look at Johnson and Starc bowling regularly between 92 and 95 mph, bowlers like Steyn, and even a Bangladesh bowler being quicker than all of our seamers, then what the fuck is going on here?

We have 18 counties in our domestic system. Is there really not one bowler in the country that can bowl genuinely quickly?

It's all about English conditions making it easy for medium pace bowlers. We need to find players who are prepared to go that extra yard and bowl short sharp spells of fast bowling. It's also up to the coaches. We place far too much emphasis on bowling economically rather than taking wickets.

I think that starts from a young age in this country and I honestly think it's why we haven't produced a genuinely fast bowler for years.  Take Mitchell Johnson as an example - that action would have been coached out him over here as soon as he went to a club at an early age.  We still seem far too obsessed with correct technique in this country at every level.     

[tomd2103]

I just think given that we should be looking at the next World Cup now(like NZ did four years ago) Bell doesn't offer enough to continue. I think at his age he'd have to offer an awful lot to keep him in the side. He doesn't have a good strike rate, average or conversion rate. He's a quality Test player, but the ODI team needs to move on. The same applies to Anderson.

I agree on the goal but not on the execution.  As Villa fans we've seen full well what happens if you remove all the experience and try to rely on youngsters as a 'clean cut' you tend to have a lot of problems.  Keeping a couple of the more experienced guys around and transitioning them out in 18 months is the approach for me.  Of the older players who need to go thge only one who isn't holding the team back is Bell, so he's the one I'd keep for definite, then you're looking at 1 of jimmy, broad, tredwell and bopara and I'm really not sure about any of them but Tredwell would probably be my choice, Broad and Jimmy are needed in the test side and I don't think they can handle being in both formats and I just don't rate Bopara.

True Paul, but Villa have had the threat of relegation which hasn't helped.  We haven't got that pressure with the England cricket side and if the test team is going well, there is even less pressure really.  What I would really like to see is some consistency in tactics and selection.  I'd like to see young players coming in given a series in their best position to prove themselves and not moved around the order or being dropped after one poor performance.