West Ham vs Aston Villa post match thread

[silhillvilla]

If we stay up I think it's 2 more visits. Then Olympic stadium

[frankmosswasmyuncle]

Well in all honesty I'm not sure how West Ham didn't manage to win that. There were plenty of chances, but they were all either spurned, sent straight down the 'keeper's throat, or else were met by a world class save from Guzan.

I think credit to both sides is due. Credit to West Ham for keeping the good play from recent games going and carving plenty of chances out of a side resolute on keeping it tight, and full credit to Villa for working hard for the clean sheet.

Someone said on commentary that it isn't the mark of a good defence to have to make that many last ditch blocks, but nonetheless when you are struggling at the bottom and not scoring goals you have to make a change to the run of defeats any way you can - and when a team isn't playing well the very least you can demand is the players give their all and try their hardest. I think you lot got that from your players yesterday afternoon.

If the desire is there each game, eventually the results will come. Clean sheets are vital when you're struggling for goals, and at the least this Villa team has clean sheets in it.

I agree with the point on defending. I've felt that all season in certain games. Even when we weren't conceding goals it wasn't particularly down to fantastic organisation or disciplined defenders, it was more a case of strength by numbers. To me that doesn't equate to good organisation. That to me suggests not having an idea of how to organise and trying to drown the opposition out with numbers.
Inviting a constant stream of pressure on your defence is also tactically inept too. We came very much unstuck for 6 games, and but for Guzan, it would have been 7.

West Ham should have won yesterday to be honest. I actually think they were below par. Just a little rushed in the final ball and a little sloppy at times. Had they been up to the standard of recent weeks, Sakho in particular, they'd have scored.

It was good for us to get a point but we rode our luck, not just because West Ham created a lot more, but because we caught them on a day they were a little lacklustre up top.

I'm glad Carroll didn't get more than 3 minutes too. He had the beating of us in the air. Quite easily.

Agree with you pretty much on the last-ditch blocks and tackles supertom, but against Stoke and 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' away this season we did actually defend well, ie: we didn't let them create openings/chances and I felt pretty confident that neither were going to score because of our new-found defensive organisation and strength.
Since then it has definitely been last-ditch-throwing-bodies-on-the-line kind of stuff, fans thinking it's just a matter of time before one (or more) of those attempted blocks/tackles don't come off. It felt like that's the way it was going yesterday, esp after WHam's big lads came on. Overjoyed that we held on to stop the run of crap results, gained a point and depression lifted slightly.
Not holding my breath though!
UTV!

[supertom]

Well in all honesty I'm not sure how West Ham didn't manage to win that. There were plenty of chances, but they were all either spurned, sent straight down the 'keeper's throat, or else were met by a world class save from Guzan.

I think credit to both sides is due. Credit to West Ham for keeping the good play from recent games going and carving plenty of chances out of a side resolute on keeping it tight, and full credit to Villa for working hard for the clean sheet.

Someone said on commentary that it isn't the mark of a good defence to have to make that many last ditch blocks, but nonetheless when you are struggling at the bottom and not scoring goals you have to make a change to the run of defeats any way you can - and when a team isn't playing well the very least you can demand is the players give their all and try their hardest. I think you lot got that from your players yesterday afternoon.

If the desire is there each game, eventually the results will come. Clean sheets are vital when you're struggling for goals, and at the least this Villa team has clean sheets in it.

I agree with the point on defending. I've felt that all season in certain games. Even when we weren't conceding goals it wasn't particularly down to fantastic organisation or disciplined defenders, it was more a case of strength by numbers. To me that doesn't equate to good organisation. That to me suggests not having an idea of how to organise and trying to drown the opposition out with numbers.
Inviting a constant stream of pressure on your defence is also tactically inept too. We came very much unstuck for 6 games, and but for Guzan, it would have been 7.

West Ham should have won yesterday to be honest. I actually think they were below par. Just a little rushed in the final ball and a little sloppy at times. Had they been up to the standard of recent weeks, Sakho in particular, they'd have scored.

It was good for us to get a point but we rode our luck, not just because West Ham created a lot more, but because we caught them on a day they were a little lacklustre up top.

I'm glad Carroll didn't get more than 3 minutes too. He had the beating of us in the air. Quite easily.

Agree with you pretty much on the last-ditch blocks and tackles supertom, but against Stoke and 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' away this season we did actually defend well, ie: we didn't let them create openings/chances and I felt pretty confident that neither were going to score because of our new-found defensive organisation and strength.
Since then it has definitely been last-ditch-throwing-bodies-on-the-line kind of stuff, fans thinking it's just a matter of time before one (or more) of those attempted blocks/tackles don't come off. It felt like that's the way it was going yesterday, esp after WHam's big lads came on. Overjoyed that we held on to stop the run of crap results, gained a point and depression lifted slightly.
Not holding my breath though!
UTV!

Yep we got Stoke and Pool right. Liverpool in particular, what I like about the way we defended was, that beside the second half, we didn't invite too much pressure, and we also defended up the pitch and took Gerrard out the game. That to me was considered. You stop them at their source before they get near your box.

We need to do that more. Camping 9-10 men on the edge of the box will only invite pressure and delay the inevitable.

[BC54 VFC]

If we stay up I think it's 2 more visits. Then Olympic stadium

No, just the one now; they will move in Summer 2016.

[frankmosswasmyuncle]

Well in all honesty I'm not sure how West Ham didn't manage to win that. There were plenty of chances, but they were all either spurned, sent straight down the 'keeper's throat, or else were met by a world class save from Guzan.

I think credit to both sides is due. Credit to West Ham for keeping the good play from recent games going and carving plenty of chances out of a side resolute on keeping it tight, and full credit to Villa for working hard for the clean sheet.

Someone said on commentary that it isn't the mark of a good defence to have to make that many last ditch blocks, but nonetheless when you are struggling at the bottom and not scoring goals you have to make a change to the run of defeats any way you can - and when a team isn't playing well the very least you can demand is the players give their all and try their hardest. I think you lot got that from your players yesterday afternoon.

If the desire is there each game, eventually the results will come. Clean sheets are vital when you're struggling for goals, and at the least this Villa team has clean sheets in it.

I agree with the point on defending. I've felt that all season in certain games. Even when we weren't conceding goals it wasn't particularly down to fantastic organisation or disciplined defenders, it was more a case of strength by numbers. To me that doesn't equate to good organisation. That to me suggests not having an idea of how to organise and trying to drown the opposition out with numbers.
Inviting a constant stream of pressure on your defence is also tactically inept too. We came very much unstuck for 6 games, and but for Guzan, it would have been 7.

West Ham should have won yesterday to be honest. I actually think they were below par. Just a little rushed in the final ball and a little sloppy at times. Had they been up to the standard of recent weeks, Sakho in particular, they'd have scored.

It was good for us to get a point but we rode our luck, not just because West Ham created a lot more, but because we caught them on a day they were a little lacklustre up top.

I'm glad Carroll didn't get more than 3 minutes too. He had the beating of us in the air. Quite easily.

Agree with you pretty much on the last-ditch blocks and tackles supertom, but against Stoke and 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' away this season we did actually defend well, ie: we didn't let them create openings/chances and I felt pretty confident that neither were going to score because of our new-found defensive organisation and strength.
Since then it has definitely been last-ditch-throwing-bodies-on-the-line kind of stuff, fans thinking it's just a matter of time before one (or more) of those attempted blocks/tackles don't come off. It felt like that's the way it was going yesterday, esp after WHam's big lads came on. Overjoyed that we held on to stop the run of crap results, gained a point and depression lifted slightly.
Not holding my breath though!
UTV!

Yep we got Stoke and Pool right. Liverpool in particular, what I like about the way we defended was, that beside the second half, we didn't invite too much pressure, and we also defended up the pitch and took Gerrard out the game. That to me was considered. You stop them at their source before they get near your box.

We need to do that more. Camping 9-10 men on the edge of the box will only invite pressure and delay the inevitable.

Last sentence is spot on supertom!

[ROBBO]

Problem is we can do it with our best players in defence once the injuries come we are stuffed. The really annoying part of our inability to score is Lamberts pig headed belief that you don't need wingers,when we were in trouble a few Januarys ago Bent was bought in to feed of our quality wingers and it worked, once the wingers were sold Bent was obsolete. Now we have Benteke but we don't have wingers only forwards playing out of position.

[Ad@m]

Problem is we can do it with our best players in defence once the injuries come we are stuffed. The really annoying part of our inability to score is Lamberts pig headed belief that you don't need wingers,when we were in trouble a few Januarys ago Bent was bought in to feed of our quality wingers and it worked, once the wingers were sold Bent was obsolete. Now we have Benteke but we don't have wingers only forwards playing out of position.

It's the future don't you know.

[supertom]

Problem is we can do it with our best players in defence once the injuries come we are stuffed. The really annoying part of our inability to score is Lamberts pig headed belief that you don't need wingers,when we were in trouble a few Januarys ago Bent was bought in to feed of our quality wingers and it worked, once the wingers were sold Bent was obsolete. Now we have Benteke but we don't have wingers only forwards playing out of position.

I was watching the Brighton v Blackburn highlights vid on another thread, to see Gary Gardners goal. Anyway, Blackburns goal stood out. A quality cross coming in and a fantastic header from their front man. It's frustrating because we should be having someone attacking fullbacks and delivering crosses into the box for Benteke. But we've barely given him anything to attack since he's come back. The best ball he's had, Joe Cole got in the way.
Again though, if we're putting all our hopes on defenders to deliver the crosses, we're doomed.

[SamTheMouse]

We only ever cross from deep - 20 or 30 yards from the by-line. Probably because the full-back is knackered by the time he's trundled that far up the pitch.

[supertom]

We only ever cross from deep - 20 or 30 yards from the by-line. Probably because the full-back is knackered by the time he's trundled that far up the pitch.

And inevitably has no one supporting and no other choice. We never attack fullbacks two on one. We can't expect players like Aly, Lowton and Hutton to be taking on and beating opposition midfielders and fullbacks. They're not tricky wingers, they're fullbacks. But Lambert still persists flogging a dead horse.

[godzvilla]

Well in all honesty I'm not sure how West Ham didn't manage to win that. There were plenty of chances, but they were all either spurned, sent straight down the 'keeper's throat, or else were met by a world class save from Guzan.

I think credit to both sides is due. Credit to West Ham for keeping the good play from recent games going and carving plenty of chances out of a side resolute on keeping it tight, and full credit to Villa for working hard for the clean sheet.

Someone said on commentary that it isn't the mark of a good defence to have to make that many last ditch blocks, but nonetheless when you are struggling at the bottom and not scoring goals you have to make a change to the run of defeats any way you can - and when a team isn't playing well the very least you can demand is the players give their all and try their hardest. I think you lot got that from your players yesterday afternoon.

If the desire is there each game, eventually the results will come. Clean sheets are vital when you're struggling for goals, and at the least this Villa team has clean sheets in it.

I agree with the point on defending. I've felt that all season in certain games. Even when we weren't conceding goals it wasn't particularly down to fantastic organisation or disciplined defenders, it was more a case of strength by numbers. To me that doesn't equate to good organisation. That to me suggests not having an idea of how to organise and trying to drown the opposition out with numbers.
Inviting a constant stream of pressure on your defence is also tactically inept too. We came very much unstuck for 6 games, and but for Guzan, it would have been 7.

West Ham should have won yesterday to be honest. I actually think they were below par. Just a little rushed in the final ball and a little sloppy at times. Had they been up to the standard of recent weeks, Sakho in particular, they'd have scored.

It was good for us to get a point but we rode our luck, not just because West Ham created a lot more, but because we caught them on a day they were a little lacklustre up top.

I'm glad Carroll didn't get more than 3 minutes too. He had the beating of us in the air. Quite easily.

Agree with you pretty much on the last-ditch blocks and tackles supertom, but against Stoke and 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' away this season we did actually defend well, ie: we didn't let them create openings/chances and I felt pretty confident that neither were going to score because of our new-found defensive organisation and strength.
Since then it has definitely been last-ditch-throwing-bodies-on-the-line kind of stuff, fans thinking it's just a matter of time before one (or more) of those attempted blocks/tackles don't come off. It felt like that's the way it was going yesterday, esp after WHam's big lads came on. Overjoyed that we held on to stop the run of crap results, gained a point and depression lifted slightly.
Not holding my breath though!
UTV!

Yep we got Stoke and Pool right. Liverpool in particular, what I like about the way we defended was, that beside the second half, we didn't invite too much pressure, and we also defended up the pitch and took Gerrard out the game. That to me was considered. You stop them at their source before they get near your box.

We need to do that more. Camping 9-10 men on the edge of the box will only invite pressure and delay the inevitable.

Last sentence is spot on supertom!

I also agree with supertom , with the advantage of being able to watch the game live on TV and get a better overall view of the Play I thought that in the 2nd half particularly our passing was much improved and as supertom implies , we did,nt invite them to attack us as we have done in previous games . Cleverly improves with every game and despite his shortcomings N'Zogbia worked his socks off , as in fact did their whole team . Charlie Nicholls on Sky best summed up the Game for me
" In the initial 20 minutes, Villa looked really nervous at the back and managed to get away with a lot of situations but they gradually crept into the game. The big problem for Villa is expressing themselves. They have got to have better quality when they get the ball because it’s hard enough to get it. They had no Christian Benteke and Gabriel Agbonlahor never really threatened much, but he should have scored in the first half. In the second half they had great spells in the game.

West Ham made plenty of opportunities. Sakho didn’t get many opportunities until the final 20 minutes and Guzan had an absolutely outstanding day. It was a thoroughly enjoyable 0-0, it really was. It was a very exciting game with plenty of chances created and Aston Villa should take a lot of credit. It was an enjoyable point for Paul Lambert, but Sam Allardyce will be frustrated " ..............Godzvilla!

[paul_e]

Problem is we can do it with our best players in defence once the injuries come we are stuffed. The really annoying part of our inability to score is Lamberts pig headed belief that you don't need wingers,when we were in trouble a few Januarys ago Bent was bought in to feed of our quality wingers and it worked, once the wingers were sold Bent was obsolete. Now we have Benteke but we don't have wingers only forwards playing out of position.

It's the future don't you know.

The problem with this is that he's right, out and out wingers are a dying breed and the changes to the game have caused that, mainly because fullbacks are so much better on the ball now than was normal previously.  The problem is what has replaced them are players like Bale, Messi, Ronaldo, Neymar (I'm purposely picking the best ones because they're players that have perfectly adapted to the new breed of inside forward that bosses the game now) who play in between the lines, not attacking midfielders but not strikers, not central but not wide.  Lambert is trying to replicate those players by getting a couple of out and out strikers to play out of position.  What you need now is a player that makes the fullback cautious and holds them a bit deeper.

As for Saturday the underlying issues there were the same as they have been for the last 2 months, you just can't allow yourself to be so little threat going forward, the longer that continues the bolder the opposition become.  The reality is Sam left it 10minutes too late to bring Carroll on, if he'd made that change on 80minutes I don't think we'd have held out and our only hope of getting anything from the game was to do just that.

[LTA]

I heard Kevin Kilbane criticizing Guzan last week (presumably as he keeps Given out of the side), but he was immense on Saturday.  Still think its a position which needs strengthing though, especially if he gets injured

[Walmley_Villa]

We are a team with no personality basically. There is no style or attitude to impose on games and we are so one dimensional with only the star picks from Football Manager 2007 on the bench.

[supertom]

I heard Kevin Kilbane criticizing Guzan last week (presumably as he keeps Given out of the side), but he was immense on Saturday.  Still think its a position which needs strengthing though, especially if he gets injured

To be honest for a couple of games I thought the Goose was looking a little like he needed a kick up the arse, potentially temporarily having Given come in.
However he was immense saturday and I hope he keeps it up.