Aston Villa vs Tottenham Post-Match Thread

[aev]

There was a lot to be pleased about yesterday, we looked organised and played some decent football but whatever we do at the moment ends up with another defeat. For all our obvious deficiencies we really are long overdue some luck. That deflection for their goal, for instance, never seems to happen for us.

There was nothing to be pleased about. We lost yet another game at home and we had only one shot on target. The fact that we weren't as awful as we usually are isn't something to be pleased about. We were still poor.

The shots on target thing that keeps getting repeated doesn't really tell the story. Benteke at his sharpest would have scored three yesterday with the chances he had but was either just wide, just over or hit the post.

It doesn't help, we still lost, but it's a misleading statistic with which to summarise a game.

No it really isn't.  No matter about how unlucky you are in a single match if you're only averaging 1-2 shots on target over a prolonged period you're not going to score very many goals.  Given the average conversion rate of shots on target to goals is about 30-35% (from all shots is about 15% but getting exact figures isn't easy) our number of goals this season is almost perfectly in line (statistically) with the league averages so pointing out missed chances, etc doesn't matter, we're not scoring enough goals because we don't shoot enough.  If we were statistically well out of line with expectations then I'd have some sympathy and hope that it really was just a patch where things weren't going for us (e.g Benteke's conversion rate in his first few games was statistically lower than expected but ended up being above average by the end of the season) but that's just not the case.

This is the problem - whilst me may well feel aggrieved about the circumstances yesterday yet another game with only one shot on target is the real issue.

[Monty]

I'm very dubious about the shots-on-target statistic. It's a statistic which assumes that a thirty-yard dribbler into the keeper's arms is more worthy of record than a penalty which hits the post (which, by the way, counts as off-target - commentators often get in a muddle).

No single statistic ever tells the full story. To get some gauge of things you need to put together possession, territory, shots overall, shots on target, distance covered etc., actually watch the bloody game and, above all, count the points. It's the last one which damns Lambert the most.

[supertom]

Sanchez was horrific against Arsenal. He was good against QPR for 60 minutes, ran out of steam and was horrific after that. He was poor again yesterday as any bit of pressure on him forced an error.

However, what he showed against QPR was plenty of ability, and indeed in the World Cup. What he needs though is 3-4 months of games to really get adjusted to the pace of the game. He needs to build his stamina for this level. He needs to build up his composure and get to that point where he can think a move ahead. It took Stan a good year to adjust. He used to get caught on the ball countless times.

He'll come good but he's going to struggle somewhat against the better sides in the league, which Arsenal certainly are, and Spurs are comfortably one of the 10 best in the league too.

Lambert needs to help Sanchez too. Perhaps play him against bottom 10, rest him in the bigger games for the time being. And take him off when he runs out of steam rather than running him into the ground. Tiredness breeds mistakes.

[Chris Smith]

There was a lot to be pleased about yesterday, we looked organised and played some decent football but whatever we do at the moment ends up with another defeat. For all our obvious deficiencies we really are long overdue some luck. That deflection for their goal, for instance, never seems to happen for us.

There was nothing to be pleased about. We lost yet another game at home and we had only one shot on target. The fact that we weren't as awful as we usually are isn't something to be pleased about. We were still poor.

The shots on target thing that keeps getting repeated doesn't really tell the story. Benteke at his sharpest would have scored three yesterday with the chances he had but was either just wide, just over or hit the post.

It doesn't help, we still lost, but it's a misleading statistic with which to summarise a game.

No it really isn't.  No matter about how unlucky you are in a single match if you're only averaging 1-2 shots on target over a prolonged period you're not going to score very many goals.  Given the average conversion rate of shots on target to goals is about 30-35% (from all shots is about 15% but getting exact figures isn't easy) our number of goals this season is almost perfectly in line (statistically) with the league averages so pointing out missed chances, etc doesn't matter, we're not scoring enough goals because we don't shoot enough.  If we were statistically well out of line with expectations then I'd have some sympathy and hope that it really was just a patch where things weren't going for us (e.g Benteke's conversion rate in his first few games was statistically lower than expected but ended up being above average by the end of the season) but that's just not the case.

Yes, it really is. Bald statistics never tell the whole story and the over use of them is one of the many annoying traits of modern football. For example it counts a feeble shot the trickles through to the keeper but ignores one that hits the bar.

We lost the game because Benteke missed the sort of chance that he puts away when he is on his game.

[supertom]

I'm very dubious about the shots-on-target statistic. It's a statistic which assumes that a thirty-yard dribbler into the keeper's arms is more worthy of record than a penalty which hits the post (which, by the way, counts as off-target - commentators often get in a muddle).

No single statistic every tells the full story. To get some gauge of things you need to put together possession, territory, shots overall, shots on target, distance covered etc., actually watch the bloody game and, above all, count the points. It's the last one which damns Lambert the most.

On almost all the stats which matter we're near the bottom of the league. Shots, Shots on target, possession, and of course points.

Yesterday was little better. I can't be content with being marginally less shit than normal (and still losing). We need drastic improvement, and that will probably only come from new management.

[aev]

There was a lot to be pleased about yesterday, we looked organised and played some decent football but whatever we do at the moment ends up with another defeat. For all our obvious deficiencies we really are long overdue some luck. That deflection for their goal, for instance, never seems to happen for us.

There was nothing to be pleased about. We lost yet another game at home and we had only one shot on target. The fact that we weren't as awful as we usually are isn't something to be pleased about. We were still poor.

The shots on target thing that keeps getting repeated doesn't really tell the story. Benteke at his sharpest would have scored three yesterday with the chances he had but was either just wide, just over or hit the post.

It doesn't help, we still lost, but it's a misleading statistic with which to summarise a game.

No it really isn't.  No matter about how unlucky you are in a single match if you're only averaging 1-2 shots on target over a prolonged period you're not going to score very many goals.  Given the average conversion rate of shots on target to goals is about 30-35% (from all shots is about 15% but getting exact figures isn't easy) our number of goals this season is almost perfectly in line (statistically) with the league averages so pointing out missed chances, etc doesn't matter, we're not scoring enough goals because we don't shoot enough.  If we were statistically well out of line with expectations then I'd have some sympathy and hope that it really was just a patch where things weren't going for us (e.g Benteke's conversion rate in his first few games was statistically lower than expected but ended up being above average by the end of the season) but that's just not the case.

Yes, it really is. Bald statistics never tell the whole story and the over use of them is one of the many annoying traits of modern football. For example it counts a feeble shot the trickles through to the keeper but ignores one that hits the bar.

We lost the game because Benteke missed the sort of chance that he puts away when he is on his game.

Statistics don't always tell the whole story but combined with watching it with your own eyes gives a fair indication as to how we are playing, and have been for ages.

[Ian.]

The general consensus at work with all my Man Utd, Liverpool and Chelsea supporting colleagues is that they thought we deserved to win and Benteke was unlucky not to be told to calm down.
That anyway is the opinions of people who don't care how we got on and watched the match as a neutral.

[PaulWinch again]

I agree that statistics don't tell the whole story. But I doubt it's coincidence that we have some of the poorest statistics in the league for possession, attempts at goal, attempts on target etc and we are now rapidly falling down the table.

[Monty]

The general consensus at work with all my Man Utd, Liverpool and Chelsea supporting colleagues is that they thought we deserved to win and Benteke was unlucky not to be told to calm down.
That anyway is the opinions of people who don't care how we got on and watched the match as a neutral.

That's what my Spurs, Arsenal, Liverpool and City-supporting friends thought as well. Sometimes the outsider view is helpful.

[pauliewalnuts]

There was a lot to be pleased about yesterday, we looked organised and played some decent football but whatever we do at the moment ends up with another defeat. For all our obvious deficiencies we really are long overdue some luck. That deflection for their goal, for instance, never seems to happen for us.

There was nothing to be pleased about. We lost yet another game at home and we had only one shot on target. The fact that we weren't as awful as we usually are isn't something to be pleased about. We were still poor.

The shots on target thing that keeps getting repeated doesn't really tell the story. Benteke at his sharpest would have scored three yesterday with the chances he had but was either just wide, just over or hit the post.

It doesn't help, we still lost, but it's a misleading statistic with which to summarise a game.

No it really isn't.  No matter about how unlucky you are in a single match if you're only averaging 1-2 shots on target over a prolonged period you're not going to score very many goals.  Given the average conversion rate of shots on target to goals is about 30-35% (from all shots is about 15% but getting exact figures isn't easy) our number of goals this season is almost perfectly in line (statistically) with the league averages so pointing out missed chances, etc doesn't matter, we're not scoring enough goals because we don't shoot enough.  If we were statistically well out of line with expectations then I'd have some sympathy and hope that it really was just a patch where things weren't going for us (e.g Benteke's conversion rate in his first few games was statistically lower than expected but ended up being above average by the end of the season) but that's just not the case.

Yes, it really is. Bald statistics never tell the whole story and the over use of them is one of the many annoying traits of modern football. For example it counts a feeble shot the trickles through to the keeper but ignores one that hits the bar.

We lost the game because Benteke missed the sort of chance that he puts away when he is on his game.

What about the chances Spurs had but didn't take?

We almost conceded in the first couple of minutes, and Adebayor also missed the sort of chance he normally takes.

[oldhill_avfc]

I actually think sanchez is one of our best players by far but he likes to give the opposition the chance to score goals . lets out he stops doing it.

He was abysmal yesterday.  Error after error after error.  Rarely have I seen anyone so inept.

You can't have been watching football very long if you haven't seen anyone worse than Sanchez. Why do people make thoughtless posts like this?

2 of the statements are factually correct, the other is my opinion based on 45 years of watching football.

What qualifies you to judge my post as thoughtless?

So in 45 years of watching football, Carlos Sanchez is one of the worst players you ever seen?

As I said in my post, his performance yesterday was abysmal and I rarely see anyone so inept.

You appear to be inferring more from my post - that's your issue not mine.

[pauliewalnuts]

Sanchez in both the last two games has looked pretty decent. The problem is he looks great for 89 minutes, then in the other minute drops a bollock that totally undoes all his good work.

[oldhill_avfc]

Sanchez in both the last two games has looked pretty decent. The problem is he looks great for 89 minutes, then in the other minute drops a bollock that totally undoes all his good work.

Not very often I disagree with you but he wasn't great for 89 minutes yesterday.  He made countless errors throughout the game.

He wasn't the only one (on both sides) and I'm not pinning the defeat on him.  Football at this level comes down to minor differences - you have to do the basics without error or you get beat.   Too many players made too many errors yesterday for us to win - it's as simple as that.

[Chris Smith]

There was a lot to be pleased about yesterday, we looked organised and played some decent football but whatever we do at the moment ends up with another defeat. For all our obvious deficiencies we really are long overdue some luck. That deflection for their goal, for instance, never seems to happen for us.

There was nothing to be pleased about. We lost yet another game at home and we had only one shot on target. The fact that we weren't as awful as we usually are isn't something to be pleased about. We were still poor.

The shots on target thing that keeps getting repeated doesn't really tell the story. Benteke at his sharpest would have scored three yesterday with the chances he had but was either just wide, just over or hit the post.

It doesn't help, we still lost, but it's a misleading statistic with which to summarise a game.

No it really isn't.  No matter about how unlucky you are in a single match if you're only averaging 1-2 shots on target over a prolonged period you're not going to score very many goals.  Given the average conversion rate of shots on target to goals is about 30-35% (from all shots is about 15% but getting exact figures isn't easy) our number of goals this season is almost perfectly in line (statistically) with the league averages so pointing out missed chances, etc doesn't matter, we're not scoring enough goals because we don't shoot enough.  If we were statistically well out of line with expectations then I'd have some sympathy and hope that it really was just a patch where things weren't going for us (e.g Benteke's conversion rate in his first few games was statistically lower than expected but ended up being above average by the end of the season) but that's just not the case.

Yes, it really is. Bald statistics never tell the whole story and the over use of them is one of the many annoying traits of modern football. For example it counts a feeble shot the trickles through to the keeper but ignores one that hits the bar.

We lost the game because Benteke missed the sort of chance that he puts away when he is on his game.

Statistics don't always tell the whole story but combined with watching it with your own eyes gives a fair indication as to how we are playing, and have been for ages.

The evidence of my eyes from my seat in the Holte End yesterday was that we were the better team and should have won. Which we probably would have, despite the missed chances, if Benteke had kept his composure.

Overall this season we have probably got what we deserved but yesterday was different.

[Duncan Shaw]

The general consensus at work with all my Man Utd, Liverpool and Chelsea supporting colleagues is that they thought we deserved to win and Benteke was unlucky not to be told to calm down.
That anyway is the opinions of people who don't care how we got on and watched the match as a neutral.

That's what my Spurs, Arsenal, Liverpool and City-supporting friends thought as well. Sometimes the outsider view is helpful.

same with my colleagues today too, usual mix of teams, plus Southampton and Fulham too, all thought exactly as above.