Tom Cleverley - Loan Confirmed

[Can Gana Be Bettered!?!?]

[
Just not trying to be so smug after every opinion given would be nice.

It's called having a different opinion, and if you don't want to read it you don't have to.

No, in your case it's about voicing an opinion to get a reaction. At the end of the day, your opinion means no more than anyone else's, but for some reason you're given more time than most. Given time and reading of your posts, in my opinion, suggests you know less than most. You're the equivalent of a Guardian journalist - someone who's well intentioned, but thinks they're better than everyone else, but actually their articles/opinions aren't actually all that interesting/relevant.

[dave.woodhall]

[
Just not trying to be so smug after every opinion given would be nice.

It's called having a different opinion, and if you don't want to read it you don't have to.

No, in your case it's about voicing an opinion to get a reaction. At the end of the day, your opinion means no more than anyone else's, but for some reason you're given more time than most. Given time and reading of your posts, in my opinion, suggests you know less than most. You're the equivalent of a Guardian journalist - someone who's well intentioned, but thinks they're better than everyone else, but actually their articles/opinions aren't actually all that interesting/relevant.

You missed the bit about where I ban people who disagree with me.

[pauliewalnuts]

Milner's is a successful career by any standards, and you can't possibly say he's wasted his talent when it's brought him so much success and wealth, but it's hard not to think he could have done more.  He seems like a relatively bright bloke (not hard by footballer standards, I know) but I think he was naive if he assumed he'd walk straight into Man City's midfield.  Had he stayed with us for a bit longer, or moved to another club that played him in the central midfield role where he excelled for us, you'd think he might have continued on the trajectory that had him recognised with a PFA award.  By now he ought to have been the natural successor for the hole that has appeared in the England midfield, thanks to Lampard and Gerrard thoughtfully deciding to stop stealing caps and stinking out the national team; that's if he hadn't already ousted one of them.  In fact, I don't think it's too daft to suggest that Milner could well have been the next England captain, had he continued to play thirty odd games a season in central midfield for a top half club (particularly when you consider his rivals for the armband were a frustrated ape and a narcissistic shampoo peddler).  As it is, he wasn't even in the frame for the armband and he's become nothing more than a steady utility man.  He's been so long out of central midfield no one even remembers how good he was at it.  I doubt Hodgson has even considered him for that role, and he'll more than likely be stuck out on the right wing while the Ginger Pirlo repeatedly pings the ball out of play from the centre circle. 

Milner's move to Man City has brought him medals and money, but instead of winning renown as the dynamic all-round midfielder he had the potential to be, he's destined to be remembered as an unexceptional bits and pieces man, and a bloody boring one at that.  I think that's a bit of a shame.  Of course, I am talking from my usual romantic standpoint, somewhere on the outskirts of reality,  where money isn't everything and happiness cannot be bought.  Which is why James Milner will have absolutely no regrets when he hangs up his boots and why I will still be poor, hungry, squinting at my computer screen through salty tears and wrapping myself in yards of moral fibre to keep warm.

I know what you mean, and definitely agree on the "romantic" front, but at the same time, it's worth noting that if Milner had stayed here, he'd have won absolutely nothing, and - although clearly his continued presence would have strengthened us - would almost certainly have spent the last four seasons of his career poking around the arse end of the table.

Our problem as fans is that we struggle to see things which concern our club as anything but fans.

I believe the people who said he was upset when he left here. He spent a year here, went back to Newcastle, and then came back to us, which in itself shows some attachment.

Despite all that, though, he's played plenty for England, and has won the FA Cup and league title. I love Villa more than James Milner ever will, but I can't really say he did the wrong thing in moving to them.

I honestly think that if there is any sadness or missed opportunity about Milner's career so far, it isn't about him being at Man City, it is that - both domestically and internationally - he gets played out wide so often, where he is utterly wasted. I don't even think he's a reasonable wide player, I think he's actually pretty poor out there. I can't believe managers still play him out there.

[villan1975]

Pretty sure there were rumblings of discontent this summer from him or probably his agent and as a player he hasn't improved and although supposition on my part I believe it is because of how little football he has played. If anything he has gone backwards, football moves on very quickly.

Maybe he's at the level best suited to him. I can't imagine any player who would swap his situation for playing 38 league games at Hull.

Wouldn't have to be Hull or that level though, he would get into every team in the prem apart from Man City and Chelsea week in and week out.

[dave.woodhall]

Pretty sure there were rumblings of discontent this summer from him or probably his agent and as a player he hasn't improved and although supposition on my part I believe it is because of how little football he has played. If anything he has gone backwards, football moves on very quickly.

Maybe he's at the level best suited to him. I can't imagine any player who would swap his situation for playing 38 league games at Hull.

Wouldn't have to be Hull or that level though, he would get into every team in the prem apart from Man City and Chelsea week in and week out.

I'm not so sure, and even if he could get into Arsenal or Liverpool's team would that be worth the medals and knowing he was with the best club he could be at? 

[villan1975]

Pretty sure there were rumblings of discontent this summer from him or probably his agent and as a player he hasn't improved and although supposition on my part I believe it is because of how little football he has played. If anything he has gone backwards, football moves on very quickly.

Maybe he's at the level best suited to him. I can't imagine any player who would swap his situation for playing 38 league games at Hull.

Wouldn't have to be Hull or that level though, he would get into every team in the prem apart from Man City and Chelsea week in and week out.

I'm not so sure, and even if he could get into Arsenal or Liverpool's team would that be worth the medals and knowing he was with the best club he could be at? 

He is better than Henderson and Allen. Pretty sure Luckypool were rumoured to be in for him. Pretty sure it will all be decided this season as his contract is coming to an end. As previously stated he has gone backwards and could have been so much more playing every week though we will never know if the medals etc personally have made him happy. He always looked to me like he lived for football and playing the game every week.

[dave.woodhall]

Pretty sure there were rumblings of discontent this summer from him or probably his agent and as a player he hasn't improved and although supposition on my part I believe it is because of how little football he has played. If anything he has gone backwards, football moves on very quickly.

Maybe he's at the level best suited to him. I can't imagine any player who would swap his situation for playing 38 league games at Hull.

Wouldn't have to be Hull or that level though, he would get into every team in the prem apart from Man City and Chelsea week in and week out.

I'm not so sure, and even if he could get into Arsenal or Liverpool's team would that be worth the medals and knowing he was with the best club he could be at? 

He is better than Henderson and Allen. Pretty sure Luckypool were rumoured to be in for him. Pretty sure it will all be decided this season as his contract is coming to an end. As previously stated he has gone backwards and could have been so much more playing every week though we will never know if the medals etc personally have made him happy. He always looked to me like he lived for football and playing the game every week.

I don't suppose we'll ever know what motivates him, but I would guess £130k a week is reason enough.

[PaulWinch again]

I'd be happy enough if he joins, but if he doesn't I hope we have other options.

[Chinchilla Bathhouse]

Milner's is a successful career by any standards, and you can't possibly say he's wasted his talent when it's brought him so much success and wealth, but it's hard not to think he could have done more.  He seems like a relatively bright bloke (not hard by footballer standards, I know) but I think he was naive if he assumed he'd walk straight into Man City's midfield.  Had he stayed with us for a bit longer, or moved to another club that played him in the central midfield role where he excelled for us, you'd think he might have continued on the trajectory that had him recognised with a PFA award.  By now he ought to have been the natural successor for the hole that has appeared in the England midfield, thanks to Lampard and Gerrard thoughtfully deciding to stop stealing caps and stinking out the national team; that's if he hadn't already ousted one of them.  In fact, I don't think it's too daft to suggest that Milner could well have been the next England captain, had he continued to play thirty odd games a season in central midfield for a top half club (particularly when you consider his rivals for the armband were a frustrated ape and a narcissistic shampoo peddler).  As it is, he wasn't even in the frame for the armband and he's become nothing more than a steady utility man.  He's been so long out of central midfield no one even remembers how good he was at it.  I doubt Hodgson has even considered him for that role, and he'll more than likely be stuck out on the right wing while the Ginger Pirlo repeatedly pings the ball out of play from the centre circle. 

Milner's move to Man City has brought him medals and money, but instead of winning renown as the dynamic all-round midfielder he had the potential to be, he's destined to be remembered as an unexceptional bits and pieces man, and a bloody boring one at that.  I think that's a bit of a shame.  Of course, I am talking from my usual romantic standpoint, somewhere on the outskirts of reality,  where money isn't everything and happiness cannot be bought.  Which is why James Milner will have absolutely no regrets when he hangs up his boots and why I will still be poor, hungry, squinting at my computer screen through salty tears and wrapping myself in yards of moral fibre to keep warm.

I know what you mean, and definitely agree on the "romantic" front, but at the same time, it's worth noting that if Milner had stayed here, he'd have won absolutely nothing, and - although clearly his continued presence would have strengthened us - would almost certainly have spent the last four seasons of his career poking around the arse end of the table.

Our problem as fans is that we struggle to see things which concern our club as anything but fans.

I believe the people who said he was upset when he left here. He spent a year here, went back to Newcastle, and then came back to us, which in itself shows some attachment.

Despite all that, though, he's played plenty for England, and has won the FA Cup and league title. I love Villa more than James Milner ever will, but I can't really say he did the wrong thing in moving to them.

I honestly think that if there is any sadness or missed opportunity about Milner's career so far, it isn't about him being at Man City, it is that - both domestically and internationally - he gets played out wide so often, where he is utterly wasted. I don't even think he's a reasonable wide player, I think he's actually pretty poor out there. I can't believe managers still play him out there.

Agree with all of that Paulie, particularly your last point.  That's actually the thing that pains me most, seeing him stuck out on the wing all the time.  He's actually quite the scapegoat these days, every England failure is followed by abuse from idiotic phone-in fans ranting about how crap he is out there.  Course he is! He's not a bloody winger!  It seems only Villa fans are aware of that.

But yes, he'd have won nothing with us.  At the time he left, the only step up was to a top four side, and with that comes greater competition.  That's the risk you take.  And if he hadn't moved when those clubs were clamouring for him, what would that have said about his ambition?  I don't blame him for moving where he did, when he did, but in hindsight can't help wondering if it was the best move.  There are always two sides to these things.  Alan Shearer still gets stick for spurning Man Utd and medals in favour of his hometown club, while other people praise him for exactly the same thing.  Depends what matters to you I suppose.  (In Shearer's case what matters to me is that I think he's a git, so I'm glad he won bugger all).   

[edgysatsuma89]

Play for the club i love and support for £30k, or play for a club i hate but earning £130k as a bit part player but winning medals?

£130k a week all day. I'd do a joe cole and come here around 32/33. Have 2 years, then fuck off out the country for good. I've got this all planned out. There's still time.

[villan1975]

Pretty sure there were rumblings of discontent this summer from him or probably his agent and as a player he hasn't improved and although supposition on my part I believe it is because of how little football he has played. If anything he has gone backwards, football moves on very quickly.

Maybe he's at the level best suited to him. I can't imagine any player who would swap his situation for playing 38 league games at Hull.

Wouldn't have to be Hull or that level though, he would get into every team in the prem apart from Man City and Chelsea week in and week out.

I'm not so sure, and even if he could get into Arsenal or Liverpool's team would that be worth the medals and knowing he was with the best club he could be at? 

He is better than Henderson and Allen. Pretty sure Luckypool were rumoured to be in for him. Pretty sure it will all be decided this season as his contract is coming to an end. As previously stated he has gone backwards and could have been so much more playing every week though we will never know if the medals etc personally have made him happy. He always looked to me like he lived for football and playing the game every week.

I don't suppose we'll ever know what motivates him, but I would guess £130k a week is reason enough.

Shame but you are correct.

[Chinchilla Bathhouse]

Play for the club i love and support for £30k, or play for a club i hate but earning £130k as a bit part player but winning medals?

£130k a week all day. I'd do a joe cole and come here around 32/33. Have 2 years, then fuck off out the country for good. I've got this all planned out. There's still time.

Well it's alright for you, Edgy, you're obviously a bit younger than me.  My knees are shot.  Still, not to worry, it's got to be my turn to manage Leeds soon.  Must be a few quid in that, and you only have to do a few weeks.

[pauliewalnuts]

Play for the club i love and support for £30k, or play for a club i hate but earning £130k as a bit part player but winning medals?

£130k a week all day. I'd do a joe cole and come here around 32/33. Have 2 years, then fuck off out the country for good. I've got this all planned out. There's still time.

Innit.

I think the other thing is that, if you had actually got to play a season or two for the club you supported, the thrill would have worn off by that point.

Look at Grealish, for example. If you follow him on twitter, it is clear that he is Villa through and through and his dream is to play for his club. So, pretty soon he'll start a top flight game for us, and he'll have fulfilled his dream.

After two, maybe three years of fucking about at the arse end of the table with his boyhood club, though, when he starts to think about what he wants to achieve with his career, and if he gets offered chances at clubs where he can really win things, or if he's earning 30k a week and someone offers him four times as much, does anyone really think that he's going to turn that down to stick with his boyhood club?

Really? In fact, how many players can we think of who have had serious opportunities and turned them down? Le Tissier at Southampton, maybe, but how many others?

Would you? If you were a 30k a week player at Villa and Man City offered you 130k and the chance to play in the Champions League, to win cups and titles, would you really say "no thanks, I'll be a legend at Villa instead"? Really?

[dave.woodhall]

I don't suppose we'll ever know what motivates him, but I would guess £130k a week is reason enough.

Shame but you are correct.

The easiest job in the world is spending someone else's money and the second easiest is deciding that they earn more than enough to live on.

[dave.woodhall]

Play for the club i love and support for £30k, or play for a club i hate but earning £130k as a bit part player but winning medals?

£130k a week all day. I'd do a joe cole and come here around 32/33. Have 2 years, then fuck off out the country for good. I've got this all planned out. There's still time.

Innit.

I think the other thing is that, if you had actually got to play a season or two for the club you supported, the thrill would have worn off by that point.

Look at Grealish, for example. If you follow him on twitter, it is clear that he is Villa through and through and his dream is to play for his club. So, pretty soon he'll start a top flight game for us, and he'll have fulfilled his dream.

After two, maybe three years of fucking about at the arse end of the table with his boyhood club, though, when he starts to think about what he wants to achieve with his career, and if he gets offered chances at clubs where he can really win things, or if he's earning 30k a week and someone offers him four times as much, does anyone really think that he's going to turn that down to stick with his boyhood club?

Really? In fact, how many players can we think of who have had serious opportunities and turned them down? Le Tissier at Southampton, maybe, but how many others?

Would you? If you were a 30k a week player at Villa and Man City offered you 130k and the chance to play in the Champions League, to win cups and titles, would you really say "no thanks, I'll be a legend at Villa instead"? Really?

And would le Tiss turn it down now, when Southampton couldn't offer anything like the money Chelsea could?