Samir Carruthers joins MK Dons

[Gregorys Boy]

I felt that our young and hungry experiment was mishandled in many ways. We went and bought a whole host of young, cheap players from overseas or lower leagues, rather than spending wiser on a selection of better players and then trying to intergrate our youngsters into the side more.
That has been a problem since Lambert took over. If you're telling me our academy can't produce better players than Sylla, Tonev, Dawkins, Westwood, Bennett, and Luna, then it really is in a mess. We've truly bought some dross, and at best average players.
Over the last decade we've raised a fair few average premiership players from our academy, most of whom have gone onto other pastures.

Carruthers has ability, if not, seemingly the aptitude.
In terms of the current batch on the brink of the first team, they're not quite as impressive as perhaps 5-10 years ago. Grealish stands out. Robinson is very raw but could make it. Johnson has ability but seems destined to float under the radar. Donacien couldn't be any worse than Baker, and at least has pace in his arsenal. Gardners on last chance saloon really. It's this season or never.

We need to get our players out on loan and benefitting from it, then integrating them better. I'll say at least Lambert seems to be doing that with Robinson and Grealish. I suspect Robbo will get a loan or two this season and perhaps feature tail end. He may feature early season too, while we're without Benteke and Kozak.

I just hope that the current batch of players around 16-18, the next sort of wave will be better. We've got to use them right, help them. In a couple of years they need to be ready for league football loans, and then a year on from there, integration to our first team. I think largely, we've screwed the pooch with a lot of our current 19-23 year olds.

You make a fair point, but then that is partly down to Lambert wasting money on mostly poor players.  If his judgement had been better on those transfers then the lack of a good youth system (if that is the case) wouldn't be such an issue.

[garyshawsknee]

Good luck to the lad. I imagine he's fallen down in the pecking order behind Grealish,at his age he needs to play. No big loss really.

[JD]

For all those being negative about him leaving, if we lose a few games next year are you going to be clamouring for us to play Samir Carruthers instead of XXXXXXX player.

I thought not.

[Phil from the upper holte]

He's down the pecking order, he needs to be playing at his age! It's common it happens all the time. Good luck to him

[Tokyo Sexwhale]

Since MON arrived 7 years ago how many youth/U21 players have appeared for us in the PL.  Of those, how many have gone on to play more than 10 games or moved on to other clubs for a reasonable amount of money.

Compare that with Everton over the same period.  People go on about how good the academy is at getting players through to U21 level but is there something fundamentally amiss.  Are we developing strong U21 teams to the detriment of the individual.

Have we failed all that badly? How many youngsters have come through at Villa in the last 10-15 years and gone on to make 50+ premier league appearances with someone, I reckon it's more than most clubs. What we haven't had is a genuine superstar, Cahill is probably the best of the lot.

Don't we have the best rate of all kids coming through the system that then go on to forge a professional career, something around 10%? If so, it shows we must be doing something right. But with so many, our inability to uncover that one truly mercurial talent is baffling. I believe that real footballing ability is a gift, not learned. We're just bastard unlucky in my book.

Our time will come.

In the last 7 years the following have made their debuts and gone on to make more than 10 PL appearances:

2008/09 - Delfouneso
2009/10 - Albrighton, Clark
2010/11 - Weimann, Bannan, Baker, Herd
2011/12 - none
2012/13 - none
2013/14 - none

Not exactly brilliant and according to some, those that remain should be nowhere near the 1st team.

Damn that's depressing!  I don't know how much it costs to develop a 10 year old kid into a 20 year old professional, but we surely can't be recovering the costs through player sales, and we don't develop enough players who are good enough for the Premier League.

Is it because our youth scouts aren't good enough?  Doubtful, because we seem to produce a lot of players who can perform at youth level; so the disconnect must be in that final push from promising youngster to first team squad pro.  Why do so many of our kids fail at this hurdle?

[bobdylan]

Since MON arrived 7 years ago how many youth/U21 players have appeared for us in the PL.  Of those, how many have gone on to play more than 10 games or moved on to other clubs for a reasonable amount of money.

Compare that with Everton over the same period.  People go on about how good the academy is at getting players through to U21 level but is there something fundamentally amiss.  Are we developing strong U21 teams to the detriment of the individual.

Gardner in 11/12?

Have we failed all that badly? How many youngsters have come through at Villa in the last 10-15 years and gone on to make 50+ premier league appearances with someone, I reckon it's more than most clubs. What we haven't had is a genuine superstar, Cahill is probably the best of the lot.

Don't we have the best rate of all kids coming through the system that then go on to forge a professional career, something around 10%? If so, it shows we must be doing something right. But with so many, our inability to uncover that one truly mercurial talent is baffling. I believe that real footballing ability is a gift, not learned. We're just bastard unlucky in my book.

Our time will come.

In the last 7 years the following have made their debuts and gone on to make more than 10 PL appearances:

2008/09 - Delfouneso
2009/10 - Albrighton, Clark
2010/11 - Weimann, Bannan, Baker, Herd
2011/12 - none
2012/13 - none
2013/14 - none

Not exactly brilliant and according to some, those that remain should be nowhere near the 1st team.

Damn that's depressing!  I don't know how much it costs to develop a 10 year old kid into a 20 year old professional, but we surely can't be recovering the costs through player sales, and we don't develop enough players who are good enough for the Premier League.

Is it because our youth scouts aren't good enough?  Doubtful, because we seem to produce a lot of players who can perform at youth level; so the disconnect must be in that final push from promising youngster to first team squad pro.  Why do so many of our kids fail at this hurdle?

[manic-road]

Losing Carruthers is no big loss, he's not at a good enough level to get into the Villa's first team and at his age he should be playing more regularly.
There are countless players who have lots of promise at an early age and don't go on to develop into the finished article. This doesn't just happen at Villa it happens at every club.

[Tom_L]

I saw him play on Saturday (Swindon vs Villa XI) and paid particular attention to him because i was so impressed with his performances a couple of years ago.
To be honest i couldn't believe it was the same player, he's certainly bulked up and lost more than a yard of pace.
He lost most battles in the middle of the park and his distribution was poor.
I think he would struggle to get in the Swindon first team so a move to MK Dons is a pretty good move for him.

To be honest it was quite shocking the difference between the Villa team and the Swindon team, both were made up of teens and early twenty somethings but it was very much men against boys.
I guess that what playing regular competitive football does for you.

[richard moore]

I saw him play on Saturday (Swindon vs Villa XI) and paid particular attention to him because i was so impressed with his performances a couple of years ago.
To be honest i couldn't believe it was the same player, he's certainly bulked up and lost more than a yard of pace.
He lost most battles in the middle of the park and his distribution was poor.
I think he would struggle to get in the Swindon first team so a move to MK Dons is a pretty good move for him.

To be honest it was quite shocking the difference between the Villa team and the Swindon team, both were made up of teens and early twenty somethings but it was very much men against boys.
I guess that what playing regular competitive football does for you.

Performances? I remember one good moment when he nutmegged Gerrard and a decent game in general against the Bindippers and that was about it. Based seemingly on that alone, everyone seemed to decide he had fantastic potential!

[eamonn]

Damn that's depressing!  I don't know how much it costs to develop a 10 year old kid into a 20 year old professional, but we surely can't be recovering the costs through player sales, and we don't develop enough players who are good enough for the Premier League.

Is it because our youth scouts aren't good enough?  Doubtful, because we seem to produce a lot of players who can perform at youth level; so the disconnect must be in that final push from promising youngster to first team squad pro.  Why do so many of our kids fail at this hurdle?

It's the hardest hurdle of all, Sexwhale.

[RussellC]

Yeah, it's more like the travelator at the end of the Gladiators assault course than a hurdle.

[Tom_L]

Performances? I remember one good moment when he nutmegged Gerrard and a decent game in general against the Bindippers and that was about it. Based seemingly on that alone, everyone seemed to decide he had fantastic potential!

Based on those two games and the numerous next gen games that i watched.... yes...

[paul_e]

Damn that's depressing!  I don't know how much it costs to develop a 10 year old kid into a 20 year old professional, but we surely can't be recovering the costs through player sales, and we don't develop enough players who are good enough for the Premier League.

Is it because our youth scouts aren't good enough?  Doubtful, because we seem to produce a lot of players who can perform at youth level; so the disconnect must be in that final push from promising youngster to first team squad pro.  Why do so many of our kids fail at this hurdle?

It's the hardest hurdle of all, Sexwhale.

That step is all in the mind.  Before that being bigger/quicker/stronger or having good solid technique can set you apart, when you get to the top level in a big league you're up against people who are just as big/strong/quick and have good technique, and top it off with having played there for a few years. You need to have the cocky self-belief to know that you belong there and for some reason we've struggled to instill that in our players.  Part of that comes from the players themselves and possibly our selection process but on top of that we need coaches at reserve level who can push them in the right direction.  Our kids are all too nice and seemingly a big soft.

[RussellC]

That step is all in the mind.  Before that being bigger/quicker/stronger or having good solid technique can set you apart, when you get to the top level in a big league you're up against people who are just as big/strong/quick and have good technique, and top it off with having played there for a few years. You need to have the cocky self-belief to know that you belong there and for some reason we've struggled to instill that in our players.  Part of that comes from the players themselves and possibly our selection process but on top of that we need coaches at reserve level who can push them in the right direction.  Our kids are all too nice and seemingly a big soft.

I don't really see this. Firstly, I think the step-us from youth football to senior football is a huge one physically. It's not just "all in the mind." Secondly, we've gone from assuming that Carruthers' problem has been with his attitude, to suggesting that the reason more kids don't make it through is because we don't instill "cocky self-belief" in them. Isn't that contradictory? If anything, the big success stories that we have produced have all come across as being extremely level-headed (Barry, Cahill, Hitzlsperger) and often hear coaches say that the ones who make it are the ones who realise that the hard-work starts when they step-up into the senior squad, not that they instantly belong there.

I also don't look at players like Agbonlahor, Nathan Baker, Gary Cahill or Craig Gardner and think that they're "a bit soft."

[paul_e]

That step is all in the mind.  Before that being bigger/quicker/stronger or having good solid technique can set you apart, when you get to the top level in a big league you're up against people who are just as big/strong/quick and have good technique, and top it off with having played there for a few years. You need to have the cocky self-belief to know that you belong there and for some reason we've struggled to instill that in our players.  Part of that comes from the players themselves and possibly our selection process but on top of that we need coaches at reserve level who can push them in the right direction.  Our kids are all too nice and seemingly a big soft.

I don't really see this. Firstly, I think the step-us from youth football to senior football is a huge one physically. It's not just "all in the mind." Secondly, we've gone from assuming that Carruthers' problem has been with his attitude, to suggesting that the reason more kids don't make it through is because we don't instill "cocky self-belief" in them. Isn't that contradictory? If anything, the big success stories that we have produced have all come across as being extremely level-headed (Barry, Cahill, Hitzlsperger) and often hear coaches say that the ones who make it are the ones who realise that the hard-work starts when they step-up into the senior squad, not that they instantly belong there.

I also don't look at players like Agbonlahor, Nathan Baker, Gary Cahill or Craig Gardner and think that they're "a bit soft."

The word cocky has confused you and I should've removed it.  Knowing you're good and being level-headed aren't mutually exclusive you can be both. The players you've named, Barry was a special talent, Cahill knew he was better than mon thought and forced through a transfer to play, which is exactly the attitude you need. Hitz is a slightly special case because he scored a screamer early on in his career with us and then fed off the crowd for the rest of his time, he's one where the fans made him a better player by taking to him so eagerly.

Carruthers - the story about his phone and a few rumours of him having a 'do you know who I am' attitude are the warning signs.  As I said when he went to MK dons if he was going to make it I'd have wanted to see highlights of him dominating games and being targeted as the key man (like grealish) but that never happened, we got reports of him looking good and being neat and tidy but nothing more.

The 'soft' bit is a mental strength issue, I agree that Gardner and Cahill don't have a problem with that. Gabby didn't earlier, but the last few years he's become prone to sulking and looking like he's not interested, which fans have picked up on. Baker, like Bannan and Bennett is mentally fragile. They need things to go well early in the game to settle in and then they look like different players. This is where the 'in their heads' element becomes key. i honestly think that there's nothing between Bennett, Luna and Bertrand in terms of ability but 1 arrived knowing he was as good a player as anyone at the club and this was going to be his chance to show Chelsea he could be a star for them, it took about a month for that confidence to erode and then he became just as average as the others.