Rugby Union (was 2014-15, now an ongoing thread)

[JD]

I watched the 2nd half of the U20 final and it was very even with NZ just edging it.  England played quite well, with a back-row player getting numerous mentions for turning over NZ ball.  He did it at least twice in the period I was watching.  They were suggesting that he could replace Tom Wood in the future so presumably a Saints player.

Howard Packman, another Saint, made some good breaks too.

It's worrying for World Rugby how the New Zealand production line keeps churning out excellent players. The AB's squad this year is looking very strong, with the greater training team of 45 being announced.   

[paul_e]

I've said it before going forward I can see England, NZ and SA being  along way ahead of the rest of the world, all 3 have such strong squads at all age groups now, Ireland, Wales, Aus, etc all have a solid 20-25 who can give the other teams a good game on their day but once they get injuries the backup is a significant reduction in quality.  I can't imagine those sides handling the number of injuries England have been plagued with for the last 18months, for example.

[Dante Lavelli]

I've said it before going forward I can see England, NZ and SA being  along way ahead of the rest of the world, all 3 have such strong squads at all age groups now, Ireland, Wales, Aus, etc all have a solid 20-25 who can give the other teams a good game on their day but once they get injuries the backup is a significant reduction in quality.  I can't imagine those sides handling the number of injuries England have been plagued with for the last 18months, for example.

We should start sabotaging their chances by allowing a few more foreign marque signings (outside the salary cap) to play club rugby in the UK.  It would strengthen the league and therefore mean that to succeed an English will need to be X% better.  Plus is reduces the pool of players SA/NZ can choose from - the Man City tactic basically.

That said, it is a fine line, as I think the weird way club rugby is currently run has resulted in a lot of English players get opportunities to play (during 6N and the Autumn Internationals for example).

[paul_e]

I've said it before going forward I can see England, NZ and SA being  along way ahead of the rest of the world, all 3 have such strong squads at all age groups now, Ireland, Wales, Aus, etc all have a solid 20-25 who can give the other teams a good game on their day but once they get injuries the backup is a significant reduction in quality.  I can't imagine those sides handling the number of injuries England have been plagued with for the last 18months, for example.

We should start sabotaging their chances by allowing a few more foreign marque signings (outside the salary cap) to play club rugby in the UK.  It would strengthen the league and therefore mean that to succeed an English will need to be X% better.  Plus is reduces the pool of players SA/NZ can choose from - the Man City tactic basically.

That said, it is a fine line, as I think the weird way club rugby is currently run has resulted in a lot of English players get opportunities to play (during 6N and the Autumn Internationals for example).

I think the way club rugby is handled is pretty much perfect for bringing through young players and encouraging teams to build strongsquads based around English talent, it's working so I wouldn't make any changes in that regard.  What I would like to see is an adjustment to the salary cap to remove the incentive to join French teams which has led to some of our players being made ineligible for selection under the RFU selection criteria (my thoughts on the use of those rules to continually ignore the best backrow forward in the northern hemisphere should be clear to anyone who has read this thread, especially when it's largely an excuse to keep pressure off the captain who is the weaklink in our pack).

[UK Redsox]

I could understand not picking English players if they were playing in Aus or NZ but some teams in France are closer to HQ than Newcastle.

[cheltenhamlion]

Kvesic is better than Robshaw as well and there are no such excuses to be used there.

[paul_e]

Kvesic is better than Robshaw as well and there are no such excuses to be used there.

True, but Kvesic has player for a side struggling in the bottom half, Armitage is winning domestic and european titles every season, and is the key man in the big games in those tournaments.

[cheltenhamlion]

I don't disagree that it is a great shame England don't make use of Armitage. I was more pointing out that you can strip the excuses cupboard until it is empty and there is still no good reason for Robshaw to be a starter.

[paul_e]

I don't disagree that it is a great shame England don't make use of Armitage. I was more pointing out that you can strip the excuses cupboard until it is empty and there is still no good reason for Robshaw to be a starter.

I don't know, it's not that Robshaw is a bad player, he's very useful in some games.  The problems with having a 7 who likes to carry and stand at fist receiver is that if the opposition have a traditional 7 who is good at his job you'll lose 3-4 turn overs during the game and in general will get slower ball.  When you have pace and invention in the backs quick ball is everything (this is also why I think Burrell hasn't settled at international level, he's not sure on the timing of his breaks because we can't get consistent quick ball from the floor).

Kvesic doesn't have the same quality in open play (although he did improve massively last season).  Armitage is generally better at the stuff Robshaw is good at and on top of that he owns the breakdown, he's the most complete 7 I've seen for years and I'm pissed off that, at the very height of his career, he's being ignored because he lives the wrong side a 22mile stretch of water.  I find it particularly annoying that the reason for the rule is that he can't attend sessions outside the international windows despite Toulon repeatedly stating that he would be allowed to attend so long as there was reasonable notice.  They also agreed to let their best player go out on loan for a season so he could play, those are hardly the actions of a club that's not going to co-operate with the rfu

[cheltenhamlion]

The issue I take is that Robshaw being captain has meant he is undroppable for years now. He also plays the full 80 every match regardless if how it is going.

[paul_e]

The issue I take is that Robshaw being captain has meant he is undroppable for years now. He also plays the full 80 every match regardless if how it is going.

Exactly, that's a huge problem.  The best I've seen from the back row was in Argentina where Robshaw didn't travel, everything just looked right.  It also sums up Robshaw for me that he was the only National captain who didn't get selected for the Lions tour.  What makes it worse is I don't think he's even a good captain

[cheltenhamlion]

For what it is worth, I was talking to Adam Balding about this the other week. He really is not a fan of Robshaw being captain or even being selected. He is of the view that Wood should be captain.

[paul_e]

For what it is worth, I was talking to Adam Balding about this the other week. He really is not a fan of Robshaw being captain or even being selected. He is of the view that Wood should be captain.

Wood was my choice all along, he's was Englands best player by a long way when the decision was being made  but an injury meant Lancaster gave it to Robshaw and he's never been willing to give anyone else a look in, either as captain or at 7.  He similarly decided at the very beginning that Farrell was his 10 for the world cup and his performances since have done little to change that, it's only a timely injury and some fantastic form from Ford that has made that one debatable.

[cheltenhamlion]

Next time I talk to Adam I will talk Lancaster.  He has done alright but has an unfortunate proclivity to play it safe in my view.

He might have dropped out but Strettle in the squad as a winger is a good example.

[Ron Manager]

The Rugby World  Cup  features two games at Villa Park I have just observed on Central..Sept26 & 27. What are the ramifications for our pitch with huge prop forwards  tearing it to pieces? Can it recover quickly. Anyone got any info on this?