Rugby Union (was 2014-15, now an ongoing thread)

[Jon Crofts]

Playing Scotland isn't doing any of the Northern Hemisphere teams any good, they've been garbage for years, at least Italy tried today and for 40 minutes were the better team.

[N'Rexy]

An amazing day. Setting up days like this could change the way we all play. Wales were magnificent in the second half. Ireland pretty great all game. And (much as it pains me to say it) Ingerlund were superb. If we could move a bit from defensive phase based rugby to more of an attacking game in the NH we might all have a chance at the WC. Today showed me that it's possible. It's also bloody rich coming from Ingerlund fans to say that we play up and under. You have played ball up the jumper for about 30 years.

[Dante Lavelli]

Playing Scotland isn't doing any of the Northern Hemisphere teams any good, they've been garbage for years, at least Italy tried today and for 40 minutes were the better team.

I work for an essentially Scottish company in London, and have chatted to them about the game in Jockland.  Whilst I cannot remember the specifics they said that the game is essentially fucked.  They have two (I think) professional teams, so 30-50 squad places.  If you're a young player your chances of making it are tiny.  Despite having a healthy enthusiasm at youth/(private) school level there is no where for the young players to learn their trade (and get paid).  In england there are maybe 20-30 teams where you can work full time as a rugby player whereas Scotland are - pretty much - an amateur team.

It's sad really and probably needs addressing, but I have no idea how.

[paul_e]

An amazing day. Setting up days like this could change the way we all play. Wales were magnificent in the second half. Ireland pretty great all game. And (much as it pains me to say it) Ingerlund were superb. If we could move a bit from defensive phase based rugby to more of an attacking game in the NH we might all have a chance at the WC. Today showed me that it's possible. It's also bloody rich coming from Ingerlund fans to say that we play up and under. You have played ball up the jumper for about 30 years.

I agree England have played Ball up the jumper 10 man rugby for far too long, read back and you'll see me complaining about that a lot.  That said, I don't know if you're Wales or Ireland but either way both sides absolutely undeniably play up-and-under rugby right now.  Ireland have filled their backline from Gaelic football and Wales have moved to a very clear policy of targeting height and strength in their backline and playing a game built around the kicking game.  There's nothing rich in saying that, I'm not saying it's a bad way to play (although I find the Irish adoption to be deeply cynical and I hate watching them) I just think England are being really stupid to try to play the same way, we don't have the squad for it.

I'm sorry if you're offended by that but the 'you've played a specific brand of rugby for years so you're not allowed to comment on other teams playing a specific brand of rugby' angle that you've taken is silly, if you really want that then there's not much point using discussion forums because people use them to share opinions and they won't always be opinions that you like.

[PaulWinch again]

Ireland'a brand of rugby is horrible to watch. England are clearly trying to develop, but our biggest problem is lack of discipline.

[Jon Crofts]

Ireland'a brand of rugby is horrible to watch. England are clearly trying to develop, but our biggest problem is lack of discipline.

That's nothing new and has blighted the English game for years, if it's not Hartley it was Mears, if it wasn't Mears it was Sheridan, continue ad infinitum.

[PaulWinch again]

Yep and it's very frustrating. Also Tom Youngs needs to learn how to throw into a line out.

[paul_e]

We need to become better at bending the rules.  All of the successful sides (including us in 2003) have someone who is always playing right on the edge and gets away with it more often than not.  Ireland have 2 or 3 of them right now and Mccaw has been a cheating vastard for his entire career and I hate him for it (but if he was English he'd be an absolute legend).  A lot of the stuff Hartley gets called up for you'll see other players get away with, often in the same game.  That's because of his reputation but also because we never seem to get the ref on our side early.  The one that really gets me is the amount of times we get done in scrums when we're dominating, teams seem to have learned they can win cheap penalties from us and they hold it back until it's an important scrum and then they pull out the 'trick' and get a penalty when we've done f-all wrong.

[cheltenhamlion]

The scrum isn't refereed properly now anyway. Never ending feeding and the ref giving it 50 50 in terms of penalties regardless of what is happening. You need your captain the refs ear to get any shot at it being viewed objectively.

[Jon Crofts]

Ref link Saturday was an eye opener, Owens to be fair was even handed throughout but he dismissed Robshaw on so many occasions and wouldn't listen to him it was a pointless exercise allowing a captain to address a referee.
That said Robshaw is about as effective as a potato in terms of his referee engagement, I wonder who can help him with this part of his game, just as Mccaw uses it as part of his game, Robshaw and the England camp must address this ahead of the RWC especially now Steve Welsh has retired (see what I did there?)

And as for the scrum it's a joke & has been for a long while, what exactly does a hooker do in this day & age?  Dark art my arse, they're just a big lump up front.

[PaulWinch again]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/32035225

Blimey I didn't expect that statement.

[peter w]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/32035225

Blimey I didn't expect that statement.

Its also forgetting that we were expected to be beaten by a good Welsh team and lost to an irish team that can beat most teams. Overall, he's right though. Our size and resources mean we should be dominating the Home Nations at least, more.

[Jon Crofts]

Yep can't see a lot wrong with that, you could read into it that Lancaster is on thin ice though I suppose.

[PaulWinch again]

I'm quite pleased to see that second is not deemed as acceptable.

[paul_e]

I fully support that statement, he's absolutely right.  Winning a home world cup would be massive but we're nothing like as far along our development towards it as we should be.  We've got a much better 23 than anyone in the northern hemiphere but we're not making the most of the backs, we largely did against france but it was too late, that level of attacking play in the previous 3 games and we win it.  Even though we made mistakes in both Wales and France were good performances that bookmarked 3 pretty poor displays.  I want Lancaster to be told he needs to be better.