Rugby Union (was 2014-15, now an ongoing thread)

[aev]

I'm a bit concerned that it sounds like Bath are going to play Burgess in the back row.

Think Mike Ford alluded to this on the radio on Sunday.

They did (and maybe still do) have a dearth of back row options due to injury so maybe this was influencing his thinking.

[PaulWinch again]

The thing is I think Burgess could make a good impact as a back row, but to be a make a massive impact he needs to play in the centre.

[taylorsworkrate]

I'm a bit concerned that it sounds like Bath are going to play Burgess in the back row.

Think Mike Ford alluded to this on the radio on Sunday.

They did (and maybe still do) have a dearth of back row options due to injury so maybe this was influencing his thinking.

That's all well and good, but Burgess coming over to union is to ultimately benefit the national team. Otherwise what's the point?

[aev]

Who is paying his salary - Bath or RFU?

[taylorsworkrate]

Looking more into it. It would seem that the RFU has screwed themselves by not contributing to the fee for Burgess to come over. They should have done that.

I'm firmly of the opinion that there is no point whatsoever, in league players coming over to union, unless the goal is to get them in the national set up as quickly as possible.

[paul_e]

The thing is I think Burgess could make a good impact as a back row, but to be a make a massive impact he needs to play in the centre.

Correct, coming from league to union and trying to make it as a loose forward (I'm saying that to include 2nd row which is becoming a much more athletic role) is incredibly difficult, they're entirely different skill sets, crash centres in union are a lot like league forwards so there is a natural translation of his skills there and given how good he is you'd suspect he's ot the potential to be one of the best 12s in the world.  Yes he hasn't got a great kicking game but I want a my 12 picked on how good he is when he has the ball, not how good he is at getting rid of it.

[PaulWinch again]

The thing is I think Burgess could make a good impact as a back row, but to be a make a massive impact he needs to play in the centre.

Correct, coming from league to union and trying to make it as a loose forward (I'm saying that to include 2nd row which is becoming a much more athletic role) is incredibly difficult, they're entirely different skill sets, crash centres in union are a lot like league forwards so there is a natural translation of his skills there and given how good he is you'd suspect he's ot the potential to be one of the best 12s in the world.  Yes he hasn't got a great kicking game but I want a my 12 picked on how good he is when he has the ball, not how good he is at getting rid of it.

Yep well I hope common sense prevails and he plays in the centre.

[aev]

I am sure once Bath get some back row forwards back then he will be played in the backs.

Mind you, they already have Joseph, Eastmond  and Devoto and a few others so they not exactly short there either.

[PaulWinch again]

So Farrell starts at centre then. It is a bit of a worrying decision. Although I suppose if they want to look at that combination this is the time to do it. I think come the 6 nations I hope to see a combination of either Burrell/Burgess and Tuilagi.

[PaulWinch again]

Also I really think that other options need to be considered at 7.

[taylorsworkrate]

Farrell and Barritt in the centres is a wildly depressing thought

[PaulWinch again]

Farrell and Barritt in the centres is a wildly depressing thought

Yeah it is not a lot of creativity there. Thing is I think you can go with power or guile, but you need one of them and I don't think that combination offers either. I don't think Farrell is anywhere near as bad as he's been playing, but if he's going to play he has to play fly half. Personally I think he needs to go back to Saracens and work on being their first choice fly half and if he does that then he can think of starting for England. As for the centres I think ,when fit, I'd go either Eastmond and Tuilagi, Burrell and Tuilagi or Burgess and Tuilagi.

As for the back row we really need to look at alternatives to Robshaw. If we're not going to consider dropping him then I'd look at Haskell at 7 this week and Robshaw at 6 purely to see how he does there. Whatever happens we have to add a lot of pace to our game and get our confidence back.

[UK Redsox]

Looking more into it. It would seem that the RFU has screwed themselves by not contributing to the fee for Burgess to come over. They should have done that.

I'm firmly of the opinion that there is no point whatsoever, in league players coming over to union, unless the goal is to get them in the national set up as quickly as possible.

There's plenty of reasons for the bloke to switch to Union. It doesn't all have to be about playing for England. Eg, he might prefer the sport, be getting more money or just want a higher profile than he'd have playing the Northern Game.

[taylorsworkrate]

Looking more into it. It would seem that the RFU has screwed themselves by not contributing to the fee for Burgess to come over. They should have done that.

I'm firmly of the opinion that there is no point whatsoever, in league players coming over to union, unless the goal is to get them in the national set up as quickly as possible.

There's plenty of reasons for the bloke to switch to Union. It doesn't all have to be about playing for England. Eg, he might prefer the sport, be getting more money or just want a higher profile than he'd have playing the Northern Game.

I'm thinking more of the viewpoint of the sport itself rather than the player. Average, journeymen league players coming to union would be of absolutely no benefit to the RFU or the national side.

I may be in the minority, and it may be because I don't passionately follow any one union club side, but I think the fundamental purpose of the clubs should be to help and develop players for the national team.

[paul_e]

Farrell and Barritt in the centres is a wildly depressing thought

Yeah it is not a lot of creativity there. Thing is I think you can go with power or guile, but you need one of them and I don't think that combination offers either. I don't think Farrell is anywhere near as bad as he's been playing, but if he's going to play he has to play fly half. Personally I think he needs to go back to Saracens and work on being their first choice fly half and if he does that then he can think of starting for England. As for the centres I think ,when fit, I'd go either Eastmond and Tuilagi, Burrell and Tuilagi or Burgess and Tuilagi.

As for the back row we really need to look at alternatives to Robshaw. If we're not going to consider dropping him then I'd look at Haskell at 7 this week and Robshaw at 6 purely to see how he does there. Whatever happens we have to add a lot of pace to our game and get our confidence back.

The issue with the latter is that our one consistently excellent back row for the last 3 years is Tom Wood, dropping him to accommodate moving Robshaw across to 6 would be a terrible decision. The issue is Lancaster picked a guy who wasn't in the squad (for good reason at the time) to be his captain largely because at that time he was the only viable choice in his position but since then 2-3 players have progressed beyond him.  I get you want to stay loyal to the players you've put faith in but it's getting to the point now where it's harming our chances of progressing.  He's done the same at 10 and is still unwilling to see that Farrell can't be guaranteed a spot so he's now moved him out to 12 where his predictability will be even more stark.  I'd said a few times thart we'll win this game regardless, looking at the team he's selected I'm less convinced, it'll be the front 5 that make it happen if we do win because everything from there back looks disjointed with most of them either found at this level, totally out of form or completely untested, the only 2 I'd say are genuinely in form are Morgan and Ford.  May and Watson are a tough call because both have the ability to turn games but I just don't see us getting the ball to them anything like enough to let them show they deserve to be there.  Ashton has been hounded out of the squad for the same reason and Wade is overlooked because when he's not getting the ball and beating men he doesn't offer a great deal.