Rugby Union (was 2014-15, now an ongoing thread)

[UK Redsox]

When I was playing, any concussion was an automatic three week break from the game

[Dante Lavelli]

Not a great weekend for the English clubs in the new Euro competition.  Although most were away.
Is this an indication that we're getting ahead of ourselves from an international perspective?

[lovejoy]

Both Sale and Wasps played above themselves in defeat. bath were poor but I'll shed no tears. Gloucester won by 50!

[Dante Lavelli]

Both Sale and Wasps played above themselves in defeat. bath were poor but I'll shed no tears. Gloucester won by 50!

And the Saints didn't get a bonus point.  i'm a pretty casual rugby fan so I don'y know too much about the european teams however the results don't look that great to me.

[paul_e]

Both Sale and Wasps played above themselves in defeat. bath were poor but I'll shed no tears. Gloucester won by 50!

And the Saints didn't get a bonus point.  i'm a pretty casual rugby fan so I don'y know too much about the european teams however the results don't look that great to me.

Bath was a poor result, they'd have been looking to win there.  Saints won't be too disappointed, they should have got a bonus point (they lost it trying to play from their own 22 and go for the win) but Racing Metro have a very good home record so losing there isn't the end of the world.  Both need good results next week though.  Sale and Wasps, as mentioned above, had narrow defeats against very good sides and won't be too upset with their showings.  I haven't seen any of the Leicester, Sarries or Quins games but all 3 got good results as the remaining sides in the Champions Cup.

In the Challenge Cup; Irish routed a very weak Italian side; Glaws destroyed a decent Brive side with some great performances by some of the English players (Sharples is a great finisher, May didn't score but was brilliant, Robson was exceptional for his 20minutes, Kvesic was comfortably the best player on the pitch); Newcastle got an expected win against Bucharest; Exeter will be disappointed with a defeat to Bayonne and Welsh were outclassed by Lyon.

6 wins and 6 defeats for the league across the 2 competitions doesn't really give much away in terms of our place in them yet, Only Bath and Exeter have really let themselves down.

I'm not worried about England, unlike the Irish, Scots and Welsh our players are spread across a whole bunch of sides not built around 1-2, The french sides are as strong as expected but when you can pay more than any other league in the world you get the best players, doesn't help the national side though, look how few French names are on the Toulon teamsheet for example.

What this weekend did show is that:
as I expected, the Bath backrow isn't good enough and will stop them challenging for titles this year, on top of that their backs aren't ready to be dropped en masse into the England squad as some have suggested.
Myler is great just below the very top level but doesn't quite have the running game and vision to play with the best.
Some referees (George Clancy) Don't see a problem with a tight-head binding on the arm even if it causes that side of the scrum to collapse consistently for 80minutes.
Wasps and Sale don't have the depth to compete with the best sides week in week out.
Kvesic and Robson should all be in the England squad and pushing to be involved on matchday.
Christian Wade is a special talent and England can't ignore him.
Not getting Steffon Armitage back to England so Lancaster will pick him is a huge loss, he was immense yesterday.

[peter w]

Not knowing the intraccies of the game at admin level I really can't see what playing in France should preclude a player from playing for England. I'd also venture that it would be against EU regs to stop a player playing for England because of taking up employment in another EU state. Surely it could be argued that he is being denied earning in the UK because of exercising his treaty rights in France?

[paul_e]

Not knowing the intraccies of the game at admin level I really can't see what playing in France should preclude a player from playing for England. I'd also venture that it would be against EU regs to stop a player playing for England because of taking up employment in another EU state. Surely it could be argued that he is being denied earning in the UK because of exercising his treaty rights in France?

They don't outright stop players, just state that they're highly unlikely to be selected.  The reasoning is the premiership rugby and england rugby have an agreement around training sessions/team meetings outside the irb sanctioned international meetings.  As this agreement doesn't apply outside the English league they feel that a player can't fully commit to the requirements of being part of the elite squad if they aren't in England.  The real issue is that Toulon have offered to adhere to the requirements wherever possible (basically so long as he doesn't travel on the day before or the day of a match) so there's really no justification for his continued exclusion beyond English rugby being run by dinosaurs who have a bee in their bonnet about him ignoring the guidelines.

[paul_e]

The Wade try at the end of this video is something really special and is why he has to be part of the England squad

[peter w]

The Wade try at the end of this video is something really special and is why he has to be part of the England squad

Great finish. very impressive considering Madagan (?) trued to line him up before being skinned. Great finish.

[paul_e]

absolutely the defender does nothing wrong there, it's just that Wade shifts his balance and changes his pace so brilliantly that he gets nowhere near him.  right now there's no one else in English rugby that can put someone on their heels like that (Watson and Daly have the potential but they're still getting used to the to the intensity at the top level) except for Maybe Kyle Eastmond who I'd also have in the England squad.

[peter w]

It's hard to explain that change of pace. I used to be fast when playing (football) and that change of past from fast to flying is strange to explain the sensation. You actually feel you're travelling very fast and for me it was spurred by not wanting to be caught rather than getting somewhere. It was head back eyes open as if you're scared of being caught. It's not just about running fast it's about shifting through the gears whilst already at a good pace.  the defender there, and the team,and maybe Wade himself, clearly didn't know he had that type of pace which I doubt he'll be able to use quite to that effect again as he'll be hEAVILY DEFENDED AND SPACE CLOSED DOWN TO HIM. I'll stop shouting now.

[paul_e]

Wade has done that same 'move' on people plenty of times, he can do it because he's got a step as well, he didn't need it there but if Maddigan had over-commited to the outside he'd have just cut inside with a side-step and done him anyway.  Like Jason Robinson he's just got a natural flair for it that you can't teach.  I used to play back row but I'm quick (I won regional 400m titles as a junior) and have a good change of pace.  The first time I played against a team I almost invariably got a couple of tries by letting players line me up and then upping the pace and drifting away from them, what let me down was that because of my training as a sprinter I was too upright and got held up more than I should.

[peter w]

So in the highest level what is mote important, the speed or the weight? i know both are important but would you have whispy(ish) full-back who is shit off a shovel fast?

[paul_e]

Speed.

Most professionals are going to have good upper body strength regardless but genuine electric pace is devastating so long as you have the technical skills to underpin it.  Brice Dulin is a great example (Metro and France fullback) he's about 5' 8" and 12 stone but he's got great technique and pace and is incredibly dangerous.  Strength and weight are useful in the centres though, Bastereud, Roberts and Burrell are all great examples of big strong heavy centres who have enough pace with it to bulldoze teams, it's great because it forces teams to keep the defence packed in the centre and leaves space out wide for the flyers.  A big part of saints effectiveness this year is down to Burrell drawing the 13 in too tight leaving George Pisi to attack the winger and Ken Pisi and North then have a straight run on the fullback to score.  This is why Burrell starts at 12 for England for me as 1 of the first names on the sheet, with Brown, Foden, Nowell, Wade, Watson and May as the wide options we have pace to burn if we can create space for them.

[PaulWinch again]

I'd like to see Watson and particularly Wade come into it more now.