Roy Keane - new assistant manager (CONFIRMED)

[Chico Hamilton III]

This is a genuine question, because I honestly don't remember the same level of scrutiny being applied say, 15 years ago, but when did we all start giving a shit about who the assistant manager was? Apologies if everyone always did, obviously.

Around the time sites like this developed which meant people having to find things to moan about for 24 hours a day. Up to that point we only had limited moaning opportunities, perhaps during a break at work or an hour or two in the pub so had to make the most of them ;-)

The letters page in the Argus

[Percy McCarthy]

This is a genuine question, because I honestly don't remember the same level of scrutiny being applied say, 15 years ago, but when did we all start giving a shit about who the assistant manager was? Apologies if everyone always did, obviously.

Around the time sites like this developed which meant people having to find things to moan about for 24 hours a day. Up to that point we only had limited moaning opportunities, perhaps during a break at work or an hour or two in the pub so had to make the most of them ;-)

The letters page in the Argus

Tom Ross.

Waiting outside the Post and Evening Dispatch offices for telegrams of the Cup Final score. Showing my age a bit there.

[Brend'Watkins]

This is a genuine question, because I honestly don't remember the same level of scrutiny being applied say, 15 years ago, but when did we all start giving a shit about who the assistant manager was? Apologies if everyone always did, obviously.

It's a good point.  If I bumped into Culverhouse or Carsa in the street I wouldn't know who they were.  I know a little about Culverhouse, Carsa, I have no idea at all about, I don't even know if he played the game before he became a coach.  Now he's gone I don't care enough to even do a google on him.  Keane is a very high profile hence the interest.  If it was another Carsa type It might merit about 10 posts and would have by now disappeared from the front page.

[PeterWithesShin]

I wouldn't know who Carsa was either, Karsa on the the other hand.......

Yeah I am this bored. Still snooker soon, where I will as always be trying in vain to make a break of 20.

[DeKuip]

This is a genuine question, because I honestly don't remember the same level of scrutiny being applied say, 15 years ago, but when did we all start giving a shit about who the assistant manager was? Apologies if everyone always did, obviously.

Who'd give a shit about Roy Aitken, Gary McAllister, Peter Grant or Ian Culverhouse? I think the last decent assistant manager we had was John Gregory - who was better as a No.2 under Little than when he came back as manager.

He was number three. Allan Evans was two.

Of course - you're right, I do hate it when my memory lets me down. 
I never really enjoyed watching Villa when John Gregory was manager but Brian Little's side were fantastic to watch when Gregory was working with him and Allan Evans, but things went downhill after Gregory left to take the Wycombe job.
I don't think we've had such a good management team since.

[Chris Smith]

This is a genuine question, because I honestly don't remember the same level of scrutiny being applied say, 15 years ago, but when did we all start giving a shit about who the assistant manager was? Apologies if everyone always did, obviously.

Around the time sites like this developed which meant people having to find things to moan about for 24 hours a day. Up to that point we only had limited moaning opportunities, perhaps during a break at work or an hour or two in the pub so had to make the most of them ;-)

The letters page in the Argus

Tom Ross.

Waiting outside the Post and Evening Dispatch offices for telegrams of the Cup Final score. Showing my age a bit there.

I'm just trying to imagine the response if anyone had called Tom Ross (or Tony Butler) with some of the transfer suggestions we get these days.

[john e]

This is a genuine question, because I honestly don't remember the same level of scrutiny being applied say, 15 years ago, but when did we all start giving a shit about who the assistant manager was? Apologies if everyone always did, obviously.

its a good point
the same applies to the clubs finances, transfers, training methods etc

I was there when we won the league and European cup, I was 20 years old,
 i honestly don't think i knew who our owner was at the time, and whats more i didn't care

how things change

[pauliewalnuts]

I was there when we won the league and European cup, I was 20 years old,
 i honestly don't think i knew who our owner was at the time, and whats more i didn't care

how things change

Almost everything about the game is different these days.

The mere fact that we won the league and european cup, for example. That's not going to happen again, unless we win a takeover lottery.

The thing Chris said about the internet changing things is true, too, but let's not forget the impact television has had. Not just in the sense of the money which it has introduced to the game, which we've discussed ad infinitum, but in terms of how much football it is possible to watch these days.

I remember in the late 80s you'd occasionally get a league match on live on ITV, but it'd be match, then 10 minutes of chat, then it was over. I read just now that between 1960 and 1983 there was not one single live English league match on television. That's incredible.

Now, with multichannel satellite or cable, you can watch football all day and night if you want to. That changes the way people react to the game.  Until the Sky era, for example, I don't think I'd ever overheard, or had, a discussion about the Spanish league, let alone seen a game. These days, you can see plenty of live Spanish football, and it's easy to find people talking about it.

The more football people are exposed to, the more opinionated they get about it, and the more likely they are to argue or moan about it.

[sonlyme]

I am not surprised at the general doubt surrounding the Roy Keane story.  It is true he was a great player - and yet it is true he has been a woeful manager - which might suggest he is the wrong man for Villa - but he isn't.

Keane is the sort of no nonsense straight talking hard headed terrier that anyone would want alongside them in the trenches.  Given that today sees the anniversary of the D-Day landings - I would like to push this analogy one step further.  Roy was a great corporal - an absolute disaster as an officer - but will make a brilliant Sgt-Major.

What is all this tripe you may ask?  Well those of you who have served will get it.  Roy lacks the skill set for management.  He is direct and honest and passionate - perfect attributes for a coach - black death for a manager.  I would offer you the case of Kevin McDonald to support my theory.  Coaching and managing are two different occupations.

Managing people requires diplomacy and psychology and guile - Coaching people requires bonding with them, gaining their total respect before pushing them to be better, forcing them to try harder, and always giving them the cold hard truth.

Roy's place is as a coach - where his skills and honesty can work balanced by the fact that he is not the overall boss.  I think he will turn out to be a brilliant coach - and I hope he does it at Villa.

UTV

[pauliewalnuts]

Coaching people requires bonding with them, gaining their total respect before pushing them to be better, forcing them to try harder, and always giving them the cold hard truth.

I don't disagree with your idea of what coaching involves, but going by this description, how would you see Roy Keane as satisfying that requirement, particularly the bonding bit?

One of the biggest criticisms levelled at him is that he lacks interpersonal and man management skills - man management might be more important for a manager, but as he'll be working with the players day in, day out, it is also vital for a coach.

[Monty]

Funnily enough Sonlyme, the general feeling in Scotland when he was dancing around the Celtic job was that he might be good as a manager in a kind of figurehead, presidential type - like Klinsmann, or even Fergie - but that coaching was a real weak area, along with tactics. His natural leadership, when channeled, makes him ideal as the man to gee-up the players, to present the club to the world, to choose the coaches and delegate (Ferguson's great trick). It does not seem, however, that his hands-on ability is the best, and that's the stuff you need as a coach.

[rob_bridge]

I never saw this coming I must admit. I dont know why it's looked as an odd move or why it's looked on as a negative? He was a fantastic midfielder, a winner and has played with and for some brilliant coaches. He's dabbled in management and has never really left the game.

To be honest I think it's a fantastic move for us. I still really like Lambert and generally think he can be a good manager for someone somewhere. Here though everything from the Bomb squad scenario, buying too many budget signings, his coaching staff cockup made it all too much for him. If Keane can help and another good coach comes in and breath life into the squad Lambert could still come good for us.

An extremely positive outlook.

Not one I share currently.

[pauliewalnuts]

I never saw this coming I must admit. I dont know why it's looked as an odd move or why it's looked on as a negative? He was a fantastic midfielder, a winner and has played with and for some brilliant coaches. He's dabbled in management and has never really left the game.

To be honest I think it's a fantastic move for us. I still really like Lambert and generally think he can be a good manager for someone somewhere. Here though everything from the Bomb squad scenario, buying too many budget signings, his coaching staff cockup made it all too much for him. If Keane can help and another good coach comes in and breath life into the squad Lambert could still come good for us.

An extremely positive outlook.

Not one I share currently.

I think we have to get used to the fact that Lambert is going nowhere.

I'm not that impressed by that, but it's far from the worst outcome we could possibly have.

I'm also extremely sceptical about what appointing Keane is going to do - I can see it ending in tears, to be honest, mostly due to the sort of person he is.

However, if that's what they think is best, then we're just going to have to give it a go.

It'd be nice if we were resurrecting the bomb squad members, though. If we're paying them, we might as well have them turn up to work.

[IAmTheOneIanOlney]

At least there should be some desire and will to improve what's in front of him. Seems Culverhouse was happy to turn up, bollock people, see no progress and then bugger off home again. Can't see Keane being happy to do that.

[brian green]

No internet back in the day never stopped me moaning all the time and everywhere. I did what Norman Bates did. I had and still have long and heated rows with myself. I could fill an evening with rant and counter rant about Billy Myerscough.