Roy Keane - new assistant manager (CONFIRMED)

[malckennedy]

Accusations of bullying are something I would generally associate with a school playground or in the context of perhaps adults against children. I accept that bullying by managers in the workplace happens and is unpleasant but the idea of professional footballers (paid £millions pa) being systematically bullied is comical. I wonder how Ron Saunders would fair in 2014? A big nasty bully no doubt!

[KevinGage]

That's the whole point, really.

As much as I'd be quite happy to see some of our lot get Saunders-esque bollockings, it doesn't work in this era of cossetted footballers.  Rather than installing a "I'll show that prick!"  Tony Morley-style defiance, they are far more likely to sulk for a few months and then move for a reduced transfer fee.  Or nothing at all.   It's the club that invariably suffers. 

[Toronto Villa]

A couple of things that have crossed my mind. We are all judging Keane on his ability as an Assistant Manager based on his managerial record. There's plenty of evidence in the game to suggest that a good assistant doesn't always become a good manager, or that a bad manager doesn't automatically translate to that person being a bad assistant or coach. What we don't know with Keane is under what terms (contract/definition of duties) he would be joining the club, and if indeed it is as assistant manager, then how good he will be in that capacity? Irrespective of what we know of him as a manager, he might be perfectly fine in a more limited capacity as an assistant.

The other thing is to call him a bully as a coach or manager isn't accurate. To the best of my knowledge that isn't something that he has been accused of as a coach or manager. He's been accused of intimidating or confrontational but that's who was as a player, and who he is as a person. It's very different though to define someone as a bully, which is something Karsa and Culverhouse got fired for. You can be aggressive, demanding and intimidating without crossing the line into being a bully.

My concern with Keane is his ability as a coach, his tactics, methods etc but in reality my judgement is also clouded by what he has done as a manager. He might be a perfectly good Assistant Manager, we just don't know.

Finally as for his playing ability, he was superb, and a player and leader any team in the world would have wanted while at his peak.

Were there not accusations of some bullying at Blunderland?

No, it was never called bullying. Confrontations etc for sure but it happens at all clubs. Keane being who he is probably got into it more and it would have been more publicized I am sure.

[Brend'Watkins]

A couple of things that have crossed my mind. We are all judging Keane on his ability as an Assistant Manager based on his managerial record. There's plenty of evidence in the game to suggest that a good assistant doesn't always become a good manager, or that a bad manager doesn't automatically translate to that person being a bad assistant or coach. What we don't know with Keane is under what terms (contract/definition of duties) he would be joining the club, and if indeed it is as assistant manager, then how good he will be in that capacity? Irrespective of what we know of him as a manager, he might be perfectly fine in a more limited capacity as an assistant.

The other thing is to call him a bully as a coach or manager isn't accurate. To the best of my knowledge that isn't something that he has been accused of as a coach or manager. He's been accused of intimidating or confrontational but that's who was as a player, and who he is as a person. It's very different though to define someone as a bully, which is something Karsa and Culverhouse got fired for. You can be aggressive, demanding and intimidating without crossing the line into being a bully.

My concern with Keane is his ability as a coach, his tactics, methods etc but in reality my judgement is also clouded by what he has done as a manager. He might be a perfectly good Assistant Manager, we just don't know.

Finally as for his playing ability, he was superb, and a player and leader any team in the world would have wanted while at his peak.

Were there not accusations of some bullying at Blunderland?

Dressing room problems at Sunderland and Ipswich were heavily publicised. Conjecture of course, but it is fairly clear that Keane won't hold back for anyone and demands levels which were probably beyond the squads at his disposal. Certainly that would be the case here. 

Or he might get the best out of them, something the former two couldn't.  Most of our lot can't seem to get the basics right, I've done my bit on throw ins, there's also concentration for the full 90 odd minutes, our lack of movement when in possession, there's loads he could help sort out having come from an environment where such was not tolerated.
The chances are he will upset a few of them, well, tough.  They've been upsetting an awful lot of us for a few seasons now, something has to change and if it needs more stick than carrot so be it.

[LeeB]

His performance in their CL semi away at Juventus (prior to "That Night in Barcelona") was as good a midfield performance as I've seen.

Exactly right.  As much as I loathe United and disliked Keane, I remember watching in awe as he single handedly dragged his team into the final by sheer force of will.  Extraordinary.

He knew he wouldn't play in the final as well.

[john e]

Some top notch backtracking there by monty,

I wondered how he was going to come back from that one

[LeeB]

Some top notch backtracking there by monty,

I wondered how he was going to come back from that one

Monty is a high quality poster, I'm surprised he's let that one out. Schoolboy error that.

[Brend'Watkins]

Some top notch backtracking there by monty,

I wondered how he was going to come back from that one

Monty is a high quality poster, I'm surprised he's let that one out. Schoolboy error that.

In fairness I think we're all responsible to an extent where your dislike or even hatred of a person clouds your judgment of their qualities.

[Chico Hamilton III]

A couple of things that have crossed my mind. We are all judging Keane on his ability as an Assistant Manager based on his managerial record. There's plenty of evidence in the game to suggest that a good assistant doesn't always become a good manager, or that a bad manager doesn't automatically translate to that person being a bad assistant or coach. What we don't know with Keane is under what terms (contract/definition of duties) he would be joining the club, and if indeed it is as assistant manager, then how good he will be in that capacity? Irrespective of what we know of him as a manager, he might be perfectly fine in a more limited capacity as an assistant.

The other thing is to call him a bully as a coach or manager isn't accurate. To the best of my knowledge that isn't something that he has been accused of as a coach or manager. He's been accused of intimidating or confrontational but that's who was as a player, and who he is as a person. It's very different though to define someone as a bully, which is something Karsa and Culverhouse got fired for. You can be aggressive, demanding and intimidating without crossing the line into being a bully.

My concern with Keane is his ability as a coach, his tactics, methods etc but in reality my judgement is also clouded by what he has done as a manager. He might be a perfectly good Assistant Manager, we just don't know.

Finally as for his playing ability, he was superb, and a player and leader any team in the world would have wanted while at his peak.

Were there not accusations of some bullying at Blunderland?

No, it was never called bullying. Confrontations etc for sure but it happens at all clubs. Keane being who he is probably got into it more and it would have been more publicized I am sure.

A few Sunderland players did accuse him of bullying them. After he left, of course.

That sort of old school shit doesnt work anymore. 

[john e]

Some top notch backtracking there by monty,

I wondered how he was going to come back from that one

Monty is a high quality poster, I'm surprised he's let that one out. Schoolboy error that.

agreed, normaly spot on

[Toronto Villa]

Some top notch backtracking there by monty,

I wondered how he was going to come back from that one

Monty is a high quality poster, I'm surprised he's let that one out. Schoolboy error that.

He is and he's allowed a slip every so often. We all have weak moments. God knows I've had plenty.

[aj2k77]

The Mackems on readytogo mostly seem to like him.

[paul_e]

The Mackems on readytogo mostly seem to like him.

You can add my in-laws to that, they were all sad to see him go even though things weren't going well that season.  They played decent football under him as well.

[Dante Lavelli]

Or he might get the best out of them, something the former two couldn't.  Most of our lot can't seem to get the basics right, I've done my bit on throw ins, there's also concentration for the full 90 odd minutes, our lack of movement when in possession, there's loads he could help sort out having come from an environment where such was not tolerated.
The chances are he will upset a few of them, well, tough.  They've been upsetting an awful lot of us for a few seasons now, something has to change and if it needs more stick than carrot so be it.

The problem is, all those things can be improved by coaching and practicing rather than just shouting and scaring the players.  Furthermore, if the rumours are to be believed, Karsa and Culverhouse have already tried the angry-shouty-man approach and it's not worked. 

Players, like Westwood, have become worse not better since they joined.  This might be because they're scared of making mistakes, fearing the bollocking they'll receive if they makes a mistake.  The whole hoof it forward thing could arguably attributed to this as the 'get rid' option is a lot easier than trying to thread a risky pass.

[Toronto Villa]

Or he might get the best out of them, something the former two couldn't.  Most of our lot can't seem to get the basics right, I've done my bit on throw ins, there's also concentration for the full 90 odd minutes, our lack of movement when in possession, there's loads he could help sort out having come from an environment where such was not tolerated.
The chances are he will upset a few of them, well, tough.  They've been upsetting an awful lot of us for a few seasons now, something has to change and if it needs more stick than carrot so be it.

The problem is, all those things can be improved by coaching and practicing rather than just shouting and scaring the players.  Furthermore, if the rumours are to be believed, Karsa and Culverhouse have already tried the angry-shouty-man approach and it's not worked. 

Players, like Westwood, have become worse not better since they joined.  This might be because they're scared of making mistakes, fearing the bollocking they'll receive if they makes a mistake.  The whole hoof it forward thing could arguably attributed to this as the 'get rid' option is a lot easier than trying to thread a risky pass.

Most players can accept being shouted at. It has existed in football since the it started and there is a difference between shouting and bullying. Also, some players need that approach if it is channeled correctly and others need to be handled differently.