Albrighton Going to Leicester

[Chris Smith]

So is it purely coincidence that two of the worst (if not the worst) results in the clubs entire history have occurred on PL's watch?   He had nowt to do with that at all?

Still, he's only been here two years.  Imagine how many more he could attain in four.

Given the circumstances he has been asked to work under (enforced cost cutting, long term injuries to key players, disengaged owner) what more would you reasonably expect?

To employ a cliché, the buck stops with him, but I doubt a different manager would have made a great deal of difference.

The chances are that he will be gone within the next few months but I think when this period is reviewed in years to come the consensus will be that he was dealt a shitty hand and neither under nor over achieved.

[peter w]

Shitting hell. Things aren't great but just because we have no patience in this age of 24 hour media doesn't mean we turn on each other. Chillax, man. It's bloody hot where I am as well. Mmmmmmmm.

[Chris Smith]

He's broke loads more records

Eg First loss at home to stoke in 50 odd years

Try going back to the 3rd division days.  First time ever lost to (add in various clubs' name).  People talk about the humiliation of the last two years but that relegation from the 2nd to 3rd division will not be beaten in my mind.  It all worked out well in the end and we had some great days getting out of the 3rd division (which has masked what went on before, especially with time) but we should never have been there in the first place.  The club had lost it's way and those were dark days.

You're right those were dark days but perversely as you say many of us look back on them as some of the best we had supporting Villa. I think we were still finding the bottom of our trough really. By the time we got promoted back to the Second Division, we had Chris Nicholl, Brian Little, Bruce Rioch, Ian Ross, Chico Hamilton and Ray Graydon playing regularly and John Gidman and Bobby MacDonald ready to start playing the next season. This core group helped us get back to the top division where all (except Rioch I think) helped us get re-established in the first couple of years before building towards the 80-82 era. I wouldn't mind starting next season with a comparable set of players.

Of course, but it was the seasons that saw is in that position in the first place that are the relevant ones when discussing 'worst ever' type scenarios.

[Monty]

I think a better manager could have made a great deal of difference, but not top six contention or anything like that. We'll be lower half so long as Lerner is in charge with his current policy, even if Diego Simeone was the manager.

[edgysatsuma89]

So is it purely coincidence that two of the worst (if not the worst) results in the clubs entire history have occurred on PL's watch?   He had nowt to do with that at all?

Still, he's only been here two years.  Imagine how many more he could attain in four.

Given the circumstances he has been asked to work under (enforced cost cutting, long term injuries to key players, disengaged owner) what more would you reasonably expect?

To employ a cliché, the buck stops with him, but I doubt a different manager would have made a great deal of difference.

The chances are that he will be gone within the next few months but I think when this period is reviewed in years to come the consensus will be that he was dealt a shitty hand and neither under nor over achieved.

I believe another manager would have probably seen that our corners were almost pointless and that the persistent hoof ball tactics were on the whole ineffective. There is no rocket science in that for me, our players may be poor, but they're not that poor. I am of course guessing but I reckon most managers would have sorted that out. He may have been hung out to dry by Lerner, but his tactics are the pegs which have kept the washing on the line.

[richard moore]

So is it purely coincidence that two of the worst (if not the worst) results in the clubs entire history have occurred on PL's watch?   He had nowt to do with that at all?

Still, he's only been here two years.  Imagine how many more he could attain in four.

Given the circumstances he has been asked to work under (enforced cost cutting, long term injuries to key players, disengaged owner) what more would you reasonably expect?

To employ a cliché, the buck stops with him, but I doubt a different manager would have made a great deal of difference.

The chances are that he will be gone within the next few months but I think when this period is reviewed in years to come the consensus will be that he was dealt a shitty hand and neither under nor over achieved.

I believe another manager would have probably seen that our corners were almost pointless and that the persistent hoof ball tactics were on the whole ineffective. There is no rocket science in that for me, our players may be poor, but they're not that poor. I am of course guessing but I reckon most managers would have sorted that out. He may have been hung out to dry by Lerner, but his tactics are the pegs which have kept the washing on the line.

Couldn't agree more - I'll just remember him as being shit rather than dealt a shitty hand. That's if I remember him at all because I'd really rather not

[supertom]

So is it purely coincidence that two of the worst (if not the worst) results in the clubs entire history have occurred on PL's watch?   He had nowt to do with that at all?

Still, he's only been here two years.  Imagine how many more he could attain in four.

Given the circumstances he has been asked to work under (enforced cost cutting, long term injuries to key players, disengaged owner) what more would you reasonably expect?

To employ a cliché, the buck stops with him, but I doubt a different manager would have made a great deal of difference.

The chances are that he will be gone within the next few months but I think when this period is reviewed in years to come the consensus will be that he was dealt a shitty hand and neither under nor over achieved.

I believe another manager would have probably seen that our corners were almost pointless and that the persistent hoof ball tactics were on the whole ineffective. There is no rocket science in that for me, our players may be poor, but they're not that poor. I am of course guessing but I reckon most managers would have sorted that out. He may have been hung out to dry by Lerner, but his tactics are the pegs which have kept the washing on the line.

Couldn't agree more - I'll just remember him as being shit rather than dealt a shitty hand. That's if I remember him at all because I'd really rather not

I'll remember him as both to be honest. Someone punching above their weight and then having a shit storm thrown on him to boot. We thankfully had just about enough individual quality to see us over the line. Our final 3 wins of the season all really hinged on players doing something out of the ordinary. Benteke dragged us into the Norwich game, Delph pulled a goal out the bag against Chelsea, and Weimann had probably one of about 3 decent displays that he's had all season. In the end, we crawled over the line.
In terms of how we were sent out on the pitch 8-9/10 under Lambert, it was just headless chickens. Run around a lot and hope for the best, even at our most effective under him, Feb-May last year, it was more a case of pull the string on our back and let go, rather than any great tactical masterstroke.

[Rolta]

So is it purely coincidence that two of the worst (if not the worst) results in the clubs entire history have occurred on PL's watch?   He had nowt to do with that at all?

Still, he's only been here two years.  Imagine how many more he could attain in four.

Given the circumstances he has been asked to work under (enforced cost cutting, long term injuries to key players, disengaged owner) what more would you reasonably expect?

To employ a cliché, the buck stops with him, but I doubt a different manager would have made a great deal of difference.

The chances are that he will be gone within the next few months but I think when this period is reviewed in years to come the consensus will be that he was dealt a shitty hand and neither under nor over achieved.

I believe another manager would have probably seen that our corners were almost pointless and that the persistent hoof ball tactics were on the whole ineffective. There is no rocket science in that for me, our players may be poor, but they're not that poor. I am of course guessing but I reckon most managers would have sorted that out. He may have been hung out to dry by Lerner, but his tactics are the pegs which have kept the washing on the line.

Couldn't agree more - I'll just remember him as being shit rather than dealt a shitty hand. That's if I remember him at all because I'd really rather not

I'll remember him as both to be honest. Someone punching above their weight and then having a shit storm thrown on him to boot. We thankfully had just about enough individual quality to see us over the line. Our final 3 wins of the season all really hinged on players doing something out of the ordinary. Benteke dragged us into the Norwich game, Delph pulled a goal out the bag against Chelsea, and Weimann had probably one of about 3 decent displays that he's had all season. In the end, we crawled over the line.
In terms of how we were sent out on the pitch 8-9/10 under Lambert, it was just headless chickens. Run around a lot and hope for the best, even at our most effective under him, Feb-May last year, it was more a case of pull the string on our back and let go, rather than any great tactical masterstroke.

Not having a go, but this highlighted bit sums something up for me. Surely you're implying we're too big a club for Paul Lambert – and plenty of other managers out there – but what weight is it we've really carried over the last few years? Are we a big club just because of our name and history? I don't think it is punching above his weight if he's had to cut costs the way he's done. He's taken a team investing at a certain level and ramped back that investment under the owners instructions, and for me that has nothing to do with him punching above his weight. For me that is purely, "yeah it's a shit job, Paul."

You'd say he'd been punching above his weight if we were a club full of big ego superstars who he couldn't win over – maybe like AVB at Chelsea. He's not punching above his weight if he's had to cut the wage bill and build a cheaper squad from scratch basically.

What does it sum up? People are in a dreamland (no offence) if you couldn't see this coming. And we're not entitled to be a big club based on our name. Big clubs stay as big clubs because they pay the wages of big club players and buy those players with big club level transfer fees.

For the moment we are due nothing, owed nothing and we have the right to nothing.

We're getting what we (Lerner) paid for – and if he can't afford to throw away his money there's nothing we can do about it. The sad state of affairs is as much to do with the state of modern football as anything else. The only way we'll ever become a club where a manager is punching above his weight is if we're in a healthy financial position, and we're not there yet. But – it was Lambert more than any of our previous managers under Lerner who has gone some way to fixing that, or possibly has fixed it.

If Lambert left now you could put Lambert's reign and MON's reign side by side and say one of these managers left us in a terrible state and the other took a terrible state and fixed it – just look at Portsmouth, Man City (pre this current insanity) and Leeds to see where MON's reign had us heading. There's a bigger picture to Lambert's reign than crying because we – what? – stabalised under him after years of steady decline? He fixed our finances AND stabalised us. Yes, we should be finishing in the top half, but is it fair to say that in two years he should have reduced the wage bill by tens of millions – saving us increasing debt, a money black hole – and at the same time definitely had us in the top 8/9? Show me the manager who has ever managed to ramp back the expenditure of a club and improve them at the same time, because that is exactly what he has done (2 points from relegation with Mcleish, 5 points for Lambert both seasons with less of a worry the second year and who knows what would have happened without the injuries/missing Benteke for so long). I bet it doesn't happen very often anyway. From the clubs I can think of most times the club gets relegated.

The people who run the club know this, and I will put money on him being our manager next year, even with new owners (except if we get some Venky's/Tan type owner who is going to go about making stupid decisions and ultimately really actually relegate us). I am absolutely convinced people are letting their hearts rule their heads in this – and because we spend our money, yes, and we have to watch rubbish. But I've said it before – us going to games doesn't mean we haven't got an underfunded team and doesn't make our team full of world class players – it doesn't take away the fact that the club was losing £50million a year and was in trouble, getting into debts of something like £200million. We have got exactly if not better than our financial situation demands. We do have a good amount of young players gaining experience who now need supplementing with fresh, experienced blood.

It's a dull/testing time right now. I feel sad/uninspired for Villa right now, but I think I'm being realistic. We have gone about it the right (possibly only) way. Actually, I think the way we've done it has been risky, but it's come off well in comparison to teams like Leeds, Portsmouth and old-City. We reduced spending and stayed afloat, and we have steadied. Reducing the wage bill dictates the levels and ages of players we have to buy – the likes of players like KEA and the youngsters is where we're at – or where we have been at. But these are not players whose wages are going to cripple the club or make it difficult for them to move on if needs be. Hopefully now, with the finances in a better place we can make some sensible experienced additions. Two or three decent additions like that and we can have a much better season than last season. The future doesn't have to be so bad, but we need stability in order to make it happen. I'm not expecting us to tear up trees, but I am expecting that (so long as we can actually sign people still) we will improve on last season.

Remember how long it took Moyes at Everton. He was at another club without the finanacial ability to spend £100million a year and pay out top level wages. That's where we're at, and it takes time.

[Steve67]

In hindsight, I wish Randy had kept his trap shut and not said anything. All we have now is doom and gloom with many thinking we have no money to spend and that we are stuck with Paul Lambert as Manager. I think I would prefer to know when the club is sold. Whatever Lambert does spend is wasted because the guy can't coach for shit.

[Rolta]

In hindsight, I wish Randy had kept his trap shut and not said anything. All we have now is doom and gloom with many thinking we have no money to spend and that we are stuck with Paul Lambert as Manager. I think I would prefer to know when the club is sold. Whatever Lambert does spend is wasted because the guy can't coach for shit.

But his last two clubs (who weren't losing £50million a year and requiring high levels of investment to be cut) improved season by season under Lambert. He took Norwich from League 1, through the Championship, into the Premier League and got them 12th in consecutive seasons. Was that then a fluke? Or do you not think that maybe there is a bit more to this current state at Aston Villa than saying "he can't coach for shit". (Not that he was the coach anyway – his coaches did that, and I think Lambert might actually be the manager). 

[Clampy]

In hindsight, I wish Randy had kept his trap shut and not said anything. All we have now is doom and gloom with many thinking we have no money to spend and that we are stuck with Paul Lambert as Manager. I think I would prefer to know when the club is sold. Whatever Lambert does spend is wasted because the guy can't coach for shit.

What difference would it have made? If he had said nothing he'd be getting abuse for not firing Lambert. He's laid his cards on the table and I don't see a problem with it. We've just got to be a little patient and hope its sold sooner rather than later.

[Steve67]

In hindsight, I wish Randy had kept his trap shut and not said anything. All we have now is doom and gloom with many thinking we have no money to spend and that we are stuck with Paul Lambert as Manager. I think I would prefer to know when the club is sold. Whatever Lambert does spend is wasted because the guy can't coach for shit.

But his last two clubs (who weren't losing £50million a year and requiring high levels of investment to be cut) improved season by season under Lambert. He took Norwich from League 1, through the Championship, into the Premier League and got them 12th in consecutive seasons. Was that then a fluke? Or do you not think that maybe there is a bit more to this current state at Aston Villa than saying "he can't coach for shit". (Not that he was the coach anyway – his coaches did that, and I think Lambert might actually be the manager). 

In hindsight, I wish Randy had kept his trap shut and not said anything. All we have now is doom and gloom with many thinking we have no money to spend and that we are stuck with Paul Lambert as Manager. I think I would prefer to know when the club is sold. Whatever Lambert does spend is wasted because the guy can't coach for shit.

But his last two clubs (who weren't losing £50million a year and requiring high levels of investment to be cut) improved season by season under Lambert. He took Norwich from League 1, through the Championship, into the Premier League and got them 12th in consecutive seasons. Was that then a fluke? Or do you not think that maybe there is a bit more to this current state at Aston Villa than saying "he can't coach for shit". (Not that he was the coach anyway – his coaches did that, and I think Lambert might actually be the manager). 

You need to trust me on this. The Manager also coaches!  Shock horror but yes, it's true. He sets the tone for the club, the tactics, the formation etc. What the fuck does his success at a smaller club like Norwich have anything to do with how he manages Aston Villa. Take your tongue out of his arse and recognise that he has failed. Yes, there are restrictions in place, but he has failed at Villa. It happens.

[Clampy]

In hindsight, I wish Randy had kept his trap shut and not said anything. All we have now is doom and gloom with many thinking we have no money to spend and that we are stuck with Paul Lambert as Manager. I think I would prefer to know when the club is sold. Whatever Lambert does spend is wasted because the guy can't coach for shit.

But his last two clubs (who weren't losing £50million a year and requiring high levels of investment to be cut) improved season by season under Lambert. He took Norwich from League 1, through the Championship, into the Premier League and got them 12th in consecutive seasons. Was that then a fluke? Or do you not think that maybe there is a bit more to this current state at Aston Villa than saying "he can't coach for shit". (Not that he was the coach anyway – his coaches did that, and I think Lambert might actually be the manager). 

I still think he should have done better than he has. He didn't seem to have the ability to build on good results. We should have kicked on from Chelsea win but instead we went alarmingly backwards, so far backwards even Vlaar admitted that had we had another couple of games to play, we'd have been in trouble.

He did an amazing job at Norwich and he had players of lesser quality than he's got here. Benteke's injury was a blow but we were going on losing runs even when he was playing.

[Bully2345]

In hindsight, I wish Randy had kept his trap shut and not said anything. All we have now is doom and gloom with many thinking we have no money to spend and that we are stuck with Paul Lambert as Manager. I think I would prefer to know when the club is sold. Whatever Lambert does spend is wasted because the guy can't coach for shit.

But his last two clubs (who weren't losing £50million a year and requiring high levels of investment to be cut) improved season by season under Lambert. He took Norwich from League 1, through the Championship, into the Premier League and got them 12th in consecutive seasons. Was that then a fluke? Or do you not think that maybe there is a bit more to this current state at Aston Villa than saying "he can't coach for shit". (Not that he was the coach anyway – his coaches did that, and I think Lambert might actually be the manager). 

In hindsight, I wish Randy had kept his trap shut and not said anything. All we have now is doom and gloom with many thinking we have no money to spend and that we are stuck with Paul Lambert as Manager. I think I would prefer to know when the club is sold. Whatever Lambert does spend is wasted because the guy can't coach for shit.

But his last two clubs (who weren't losing £50million a year and requiring high levels of investment to be cut) improved season by season under Lambert. He took Norwich from League 1, through the Championship, into the Premier League and got them 12th in consecutive seasons. Was that then a fluke? Or do you not think that maybe there is a bit more to this current state at Aston Villa than saying "he can't coach for shit". (Not that he was the coach anyway – his coaches did that, and I think Lambert might actually be the manager). 

You need to trust me on this. The Manager also coaches!  Shock horror but yes, it's true. He sets the tone for the club, the tactics, the formation etc. What the fuck does his success at a smaller club like Norwich have anything to do with how he manages Aston Villa. Take your tongue out of his arse and recognise that he has failed. Yes, there are restrictions in place, but he has failed at Villa. It happens.

Ignoring the tongue comment, the view that Lambert "can't coach for toffee" can't be backed up any more than the view that Lambert has done a good job in trying circumstances. None of us know what the parameters are and what exactly has gone on so opinions are still valid, whatever they are.

[Dlp]

Not having a go, but this highlighted bit sums something up for me. Surely you're implying we're too big a club for Paul Lambert – and plenty of other managers out there – but what weight is it we've really carried over the last few years? Are we a big club just because of our name and history? I don't think it is punching above his weight if he's had to cut costs the way he's done. He's taken a team investing at a certain level and ramped back that investment under the owners instructions, and for me that has nothing to do with him punching above his weight. For me that is purely, "yeah it's a shit job, Paul."

You'd say he'd been punching above his weight if we were a club full of big ego superstars who he couldn't win over – maybe like AVB at Chelsea. He's not punching above his weight if he's had to cut the wage bill and build a cheaper squad from scratch basically.

What does it sum up? People are in a dreamland (no offence) if you couldn't see this coming. And we're not entitled to be a big club based on our name. Big clubs stay as big clubs because they pay the wages of big club players and buy those players with big club level transfer fees.

For the moment we are due nothing, owed nothing and we have the right to nothing.

We're getting what we (Lerner) paid for – and if he can't afford to throw away his money there's nothing we can do about it. The sad state of affairs is as much to do with the state of modern football as anything else. The only way we'll ever become a club where a manager is punching above his weight is if we're in a healthy financial position, and we're not there yet. But – it was Lambert more than any of our previous managers under Lerner who has gone some way to fixing that, or possibly has fixed it.

If Lambert left now you could put Lambert's reign and MON's reign side by side and say one of these managers left us in a terrible state and the other took a terrible state and fixed it – just look at Portsmouth, Man City (pre this current insanity) and Leeds to see where MON's reign had us heading. There's a bigger picture to Lambert's reign than crying because we – what? – stabalised under him after years of steady decline? He fixed our finances AND stabalised us. Yes, we should be finishing in the top half, but is it fair to say that in two years he should have reduced the wage bill by tens of millions – saving us increasing debt, a money black hole – and at the same time definitely had us in the top 8/9? Show me the manager who has ever managed to ramp back the expenditure of a club and improve them at the same time, because that is exactly what he has done (2 points from relegation with Mcleish, 5 points for Lambert both seasons with less of a worry the second year and who knows what would have happened without the injuries/missing Benteke for so long). I bet it doesn't happen very often anyway. From the clubs I can think of most times the club gets relegated.

The people who run the club know this, and I will put money on him being our manager next year, even with new owners (except if we get some Venky's/Tan type owner who is going to go about making stupid decisions and ultimately really actually relegate us). I am absolutely convinced people are letting their hearts rule their heads in this – and because we spend our money, yes, and we have to watch rubbish. But I've said it before – us going to games doesn't mean we haven't got an underfunded team and doesn't make our team full of world class players – it doesn't take away the fact that the club was losing £50million a year and was in trouble, getting into debts of something like £200million. We have got exactly if not better than our financial situation demands. We do have a good amount of young players gaining experience who now need supplementing with fresh, experienced blood.

It's a dull/testing time right now. I feel sad/uninspired for Villa right now, but I think I'm being realistic. We have gone about it the right (possibly only) way. Actually, I think the way we've done it has been risky, but it's come off well in comparison to teams like Leeds, Portsmouth and old-City. We reduced spending and stayed afloat, and we have steadied. Reducing the wage bill dictates the levels and ages of players we have to buy – the likes of players like KEA and the youngsters is where we're at – or where we have been at. But these are not players whose wages are going to cripple the club or make it difficult for them to move on if needs be. Hopefully now, with the finances in a better place we can make some sensible experienced additions. Two or three decent additions like that and we can have a much better season than last season. The future doesn't have to be so bad, but we need stability in order to make it happen. I'm not expecting us to tear up trees, but I am expecting that (so long as we can actually sign people still) we will improve on last season.

Remember how long it took Moyes at Everton. He was at another club without the finanacial ability to spend £100million a year and pay out top level wages. That's where we're at, and it takes time.

Can't really disagree with what you are saying, Lambert has been restricted by the lack of funds which have dictated the level of player and wages we can afford. What he is to blame for however is the tactics we see most games. I wonder what is done on a daily basis at Bodymoor Heath because for two seasons now the same mistakes are being made which has cost us. If the manager can't see this and do something about it on the training pitch then he has to shoulder a fair bit of the blame for the current situation and league position. We can't blame the mistakes on "inexperience" forever and you don't have to be a Lionel Messi to be take on board basic coaching instructions like keeping a certain shape and movement off the ball. To many points were thrown away last season because of basic "schoolboy" errors. This in my opinion comes down to the manager and coaching staff who should see this and do something about it.