The Takeover Thread - Recon Group - NOW WITH NEW POLL

[paul_e]

One thing that does concern me though which is again brought up in that Telegraph article, why doesn't he ever appear in any rich lists? E.g The Hurun report – 'A list of China’s most wealthy. The latest report has more than 1,700 people, with wealth ranging from $34.7bn (£23.7bn) to $310m (£214m).' Xia is nowhere to be seen on that.

I believe those lists are based on personal wealth (property, savings, etc) and shareholdings (stock value).  Given the businesses in the group seem to be almost entirely private ownership they have no stock so there's no stock value.  They also don't appear to have to report financial performance in China so it's hard to even estimate a value without being granted access to accounting details.

I think the biggest problem here is the lack of transparency required by Chinese businesses.

[Brend'Watkins]

I am confused as to what is new and what isn't, but the below is dated today.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/05/23/questions-linger-over-new-chinese-owner-of-aston-villa/

That article is shit. They're still pedalling the ''false education'' narrative, this says otherwise

https://twitter.com/sportingintel/status/734304247655895040

And it's just a reworking of the article I read in the business pages of the Sunday Telegraph I got free with a ridiculously priced bottle of water on my way back from that London.

[Brend'Watkins]

One thing that does concern me though which is again brought up in that Telegraph article, why doesn't he ever appear in any rich lists? E.g The Hurun report – 'A list of China’s most wealthy. The latest report has more than 1,700 people, with wealth ranging from $34.7bn (£23.7bn) to $310m (£214m).' Xia is nowhere to be seen on that.

I believe those lists are based on personal wealth (property, savings, etc) and shareholdings (stock value).  Given the businesses in the group seem to be almost entirely private ownership they have no stock so there's no stock value.  They also don't appear to have to report financial performance in China so it's hard to even estimate a value without being granted access to accounting details.

I think the biggest problem here is the lack of transparency required by Chinese businesses.

It's obviously their business culture. We'd like transparency because we like transparency.  'They' don't appear to be too bothered.

[paul_e]

One thing that does concern me though which is again brought up in that Telegraph article, why doesn't he ever appear in any rich lists? E.g The Hurun report – 'A list of China’s most wealthy. The latest report has more than 1,700 people, with wealth ranging from $34.7bn (£23.7bn) to $310m (£214m).' Xia is nowhere to be seen on that.

I believe those lists are based on personal wealth (property, savings, etc) and shareholdings (stock value).  Given the businesses in the group seem to be almost entirely private ownership they have no stock so there's no stock value.  They also don't appear to have to report financial performance in China so it's hard to even estimate a value without being granted access to accounting details.

I think the biggest problem here is the lack of transparency required by Chinese businesses.

It's obviously their business culture. We'd like transparency because we like transparency.  'They' don't appear to be too bothered.

Absolutely.  I think the mix of communism and free markets makes their business practices very different to the west, that's the impression I get.

[HK Villan]

Please..... let's not just assume because China is a long way from B6 and they have at face value a different economic system that this explains the lack of hard facts.  There are plenty of hard facts in China and well known business groups and billionaires. 

[The Edge]

One thing that does concern me though which is again brought up in that Telegraph article, why doesn't he ever appear in any rich lists? E.g The Hurun report – 'A list of China’s most wealthy. The latest report has more than 1,700 people, with wealth ranging from $34.7bn (£23.7bn) to $310m (£214m).' Xia is nowhere to be seen on that.

I believe those lists are based on personal wealth (property, savings, etc) and shareholdings (stock value).  Given the businesses in the group seem to be almost entirely private ownership they have no stock so there's no stock value.  They also don't appear to have to report financial performance in China so it's hard to even estimate a value without being granted access to accounting details.

I think the biggest problem here is the lack of transparency required by Chinese businesses.

It's obviously their business culture. We'd like transparency because we like transparency.  'They' don't appear to be too bothered.

Absolutely.  I think the mix of communism and free markets makes their business practice's very different to the west, that's the impression I get.

I'm an electrician with very little knowledge of how big business and finance work here or in China. But common sense tells me that this Recon group would only get involved if they stood a good chance of being successful. The Doc has made some big claims for what they have got planned. They are ambitious and would want their brand to be associated with a successful Aston Villa that they want to be playing on the biggest sporting stages in the world. Their success will depend on our success. What would be the point of getting involved otherwise? I'm looking at the positives with fingers crossed & hoping for the best. Let's not forget how we think as football fans. Everyone else including the press are hoping we fall flat on our face.

[paul_e]

Please..... let's not just assume because China is a long way from B6 and they have at face value a different economic system that this explains the lack of hard facts.  There are plenty of hard facts in China and well known business groups and billionaires. 

Yes there are, but there are plenty of gaps as well, which is why we're even having this discussion. The key thing is are those gaps there because Xia is trying to hide something or are they there because he has never needed to fill them?  That's not making an assumption, it's challenging the assumption that those gaps exist as proof that the guy is dodgy.  As I've said a few times I don't know how wealthy the group is, I'm not even going to try to guess but I refuse to follow the idea that because we can't find the details it's somehow proof that they don't have a pot to piss in despite the people who should have more details are telling us that they're mega rich.  That just doesn't make sense.

That said the 'hard facts' here are changing fairly regularly right now as info emerges. For example, it was being treated by some as a hard fact that he'd lied about his education but that's been put to bed last night so what other facts that are being used to make people nervous are going to be proven false over the next few days?

[avfcpg]

Wasn't it said (not sure from which source) that his "personal wealth" is £75 million, so the funds clearly aren't coming from his own personal wealth but from Recon and whatever other interests he has. In his interview he has said that he is paying £52 million plus clearing a £20 odd million overdraft / debt and another £40 million is being held in account if we get promoted first year. Stick on the stated £20-£50 million transfer kitty and that's on awful lot for someone who has no money.
Maybe it will all fall through (as the media seem to be praying it will) but if not then it's safe to assume that having shelled out anything up to £185 million, that the money is there.
We'll find out soon enough... 

[Brend'Watkins]

Please..... let's not just assume because China is a long way from B6 and they have at face value a different economic system that this explains the lack of hard facts.  There are plenty of hard facts in China and well known business groups and billionaires. 

You could also say there are  just as many working within the different economic system that is China.  It doesn't necessarily make them dodgy, iffy, or anything negative.

[passport1]

I am increasingly coming to the view that this take over could fall flat on its arse. King and Bernstein have  walked the media including tha FT have hinted that even for China he looks dodgy.

Those are some pretty significant straws in the wind for me.

[paul_e]

I am increasingly coming to the view that this take over could fall flat on its arse. King and Bernstein have  walked the media including tha FT have hinted that even for China he looks dodgy.

Those are some pretty significant straws in the wind for me.

Other than the fact that there is absolutely no evidence linking King and Bernstein leaving to them thinking Xia is dodgy and that 2-3 of the things that have been used to make him look dodgy have been proven false.

[Stirchley Villain]

If Moyes agrees to join us this week I think we can pretty much assume that the takeover deal's a good un.

[avfcpg]

I am increasingly coming to the view that this take over could fall flat on its arse. King and Bernstein have  walked the media including tha FT have hinted that even for China he looks dodgy.

Those are some pretty significant straws in the wind for me.

Maybe they walked because we were being sold and they had no more to do. Mervyn King went public and stated that if the takeover went through it would be very very good news for Aston Villa. We seem to read more into what the media puts out there than we do when people are quoted directly.
This is the same media that told us our u21's beat our first team and that the new badge cost £1 million to design. And the telegraph have just rehashed yet another piece today...
It's Villa bashing time for the media..has been for some time...

[conman]

One thing that does concern me though which is again brought up in that Telegraph article, why doesn't he ever appear in any rich lists? E.g The Hurun report – 'A list of China’s most wealthy. The latest report has more than 1,700 people, with wealth ranging from $34.7bn (£23.7bn) to $310m (£214m).' Xia is nowhere to be seen on that.

Exactly.  We need to wake up and look at facts, and there don't seem to be many which support his ownership of Villa. 

Look  , we're gonna have a theme park , Just rejoice at that news

[passport1]

'Other than the fact '

There are no facts just opinions and as I stated some pretty significant straws in the wind.