BFR 75 Today

[IFWaters]

I was at the Everton game. It was 8 black players. I remember being very proud of our club. Fair to say I was very disappointed in his later comments. Overall I was very entertained and happy about Ron's management and Big Fat Ron's Claret Blue Army sung repeatedly  and at pace by the whole ground is still my favourite chant of all time.

Regarding the other comments about racism, ageism, classism, weight etc I agree with much of what Brian said. Put simply we all need to have respect and understanding of our fellow human beings. Look at what is going on now for where we end up if we don't. I agree that someone's weight is most often a result of a hidden psychological issue but at the same time it is seriously unhealthy and nothing to be proud of. We should always try to balance helping someone with making clear they have a responsibility to look after themselves. Treat everyone as you want to be treated yourself.

Happy Birthday Ron.

[Deano's Mullet]

You heard that booing at the end? I started it.

Our three Bulgarians were on show today. Wouldov  Couldov and Shouldov.

Parker confused us all all by coming on and passing the ball.

I think the Inter spies watching that will be as confused as we were.

[algy]

Happy birthday, Ron.

On the whole racism thing, is it not possible to have some kind of middle ground? I remember having a hand painted Aston Villa team at the start of the 93/94 season and someone made some kind of "joke" comment that there weren't enough black players in it, but with rather less racially sensitive language.

The comment shocked me at the time, both as I'd only ever heard the language once before (from some Chelsea supporters at the ticket office at Aston station after a game - the Villa supporters there made abundantly clear to them that it wasn't acceptable language). It also did because I genuinely didn't see there being anything particularly unusual about the makeup of Villa's team. That, to me, was an absolutely fantastic legacy for BFR to leave. Along with one of my favourite Villa teams, of course.

It's difficult to reconcile that with some of his later comments. The language used was awful, and it surprises me that someone who clearly did a fair amount of media work, and worked with black footballers for a very long time, would not understand that what he was saying was offensive.

I dunno, I think these things aren't so black-and-white, you can hold someone in high regard and still condemn their actions.

[Pete3206]

2:43 to 06:13 always makes me chuckle, especially Ron's last comment. Added bonus of a great FA cup tie.

&ab_channel=VillaBoy

[RamboandBruno]

I loved almost everything about Rons years at Villa, the football was probably the most attractive exciting stuff I’ve seen and for all the media hype about Fergusons first league title in 93, we blew that league title run in as much as they won it.
But when Ron said what he said about Desailly, my heart sank, like it always does when you realise one of your heroes is fundamentally flawed in some of the most serious ways possible.

The whole debates about what constitutes racism and layering modern mores over earlier era’s are really complex and i agree with some of the sentiments about values changing over time and people being constructed by the era they grew up in and to a degree the unfairness of layering modern expectations on past times. However, i really struggle with the idea that people from whatever era cannot grow and develop and have a greater understanding of what is right, wrong and acceptable/unacceptable in different periods of time.
There have been examples used by other posters, but i grew up in a ethnically diverse part of inner city brum in the late 70s and 80s and there was throwaway racist terminology used all the time, the Asian ice cream man was Sam Sam the P**i Man. I had lots of black friends, but sometimes used racist terms myself. However, by the age of 14/15/16, in the late 80s, i had worked out myself this was offensive language liable to cause great upset and as an adult realised further how the development and use of such language is more than hurtful but utilised to subjugate whole groups of people. Looking back i cringe with more than embarrassment.
My point i guess is, even with Ron being a couple of generations older than me, why would we excuse him not knowing what he said was wrong, especially in the period of time he said it in, early 2000s was it? Are we saying that if he’d said that to Marcel Desaillys face or any black person, Ron wouldn’t of known that would be upsetting. Why would Ron use such evocative horrible language to describe a world cup winning defender, possibly one of the great defenders, if not to belittle his image and ability, reducing him to ‘one lazy n****r.

Ron provides me with some wonderful memories that will be with me forever. But Ron was a racist, if Ron hasn’t seen the error of what he said and more importantly what drove him to say it, Ron in my view still is a racist.

[villabear]

2:43 to 06:13 always makes me chuckle, especially Ron's last comment. Added bonus of a great FA cup tie.

&ab_channel=VillaBoy

That’s is brilliant. BFR and Arthur Cox great respect. Alan Towers, Shilton, Sealey, God, Stix, Tin Man Ted, Yorkey, Paul Williams volley, Parker, Kubicki, Daley, Big Cyrille. It had it all. Loved it.

"He thinks you're crap, by the way." 🤣

[sid1964]

Went to that game at Derby, honestly thought that it was our season for winning the FA Cup

Loved BFR at the Villa, the football we played was fantastic, remember when he went on to the pitch to explain why we had not yet signed Saunders from Liverpool

Started to go down hill when he signed Fashanu from Wimbledon, he just did not suit the type of football that we played.

[algy]

Went to that Derby game too, was one of the first away games I went to.  Absolutely loved it, still is one of my favourite ever Villa games.

[Drummond]

I loved his teams, and the football, but that racist comment means I'll never laud the man. It was disgraceful whichever way you try and dress it up; there's just no excuse whatsoever.

[LeeB]

I loved his teams, and the football, but that racist comment means I'll never laud the man. It was disgraceful whichever way you try and dress it up; there's just no excuse whatsoever.

It was, and it wasn't a one off. He made a comment about Earl Barrett at a Q&A at the Drakes Drum just after we'd signed him.

It's a paradox as he probably gave more black players opportunities than any other manager of his era, but then that served his own ends by making his teams better.

In my old school 90's definitions from Sociology, a racist would be someone that would hate and also use their power to deny opportunities and persecute other groups based of their colour, which doesn't fit with Ron, he's just a bigot.

[AV82EC]

He’s another of that generation that even if your actions means you can’t be described as racist your language certainly can. To use the words in the way he did as some sort of analogy was offensive in the extreme. I think I defended what he’d said at the time as some sort of contextual misunderstanding but after reflecting I came to realise it was just an appalling piece of blatant bigotry. He couldn’t seem to get away from his inherent bias of what he thought about black footballers in general even though his actions could be said to have advanced their cause. Repeating the lazy stereotypes of his upbringing in whatever context was just really nasty.

[usav]

75?  So that means he was 44 when he came to us from Wednesday.   Mind blown.

[Damo70]

2:43 to 06:13 always makes me chuckle, especially Ron's last comment. Added bonus of a great FA cup tie.

&ab_channel=VillaBoy

That’s is brilliant. BFR and Arthur Cox great respect. Alan Towers, Shilton, Sealey, God, Stix, Tin Man Ted, Yorkey, Paul Williams volley, Parker, Kubicki, Daley, Big Cyrille. It had it all. Loved it.

"He thinks you're crap, by the way." 🤣

Most of the time we had a crap view at the Baseball Ground, a prime example being Tony Cascorino's debut.
However in the cup tie we were allocated seats and we actually had a good view. That was also yet another year
when it was definitely  our year for the cup.

[Drummond]

75?  So that means he was 44 when he came to us from Wednesday.   Mind blown.

That was when this thread started. He's 83 now.

[usav]

75?  So that means he was 44 when he came to us from Wednesday.   Mind blown.

That was when this thread started. He's 83 now.

Doh!  Thanks, it's still early here.