The Accounts are out.

[oldhill_avfc]

@ Clampy & Mister E

Nobody disagrees that Lerner has invested a vast amount into AVFC Ltd. 

Now why did he do that?  Was it because he wanted to be generous to some random football club?  Was it because he likes us Villa supporters and wants to subsidise our enjoyment?

Of course not.  He either made a vanity investment or he thought he could make a buck.  Either way I wouldn't care he'd been successful - it would have been a win-win.

But he hasn't been successful.  His returns have been abysmal.  That makes him a poor businessman and more importantly a poor chairman/owner of AVFC in my eyes.  I can't really see why anyone would find this contentious.

[dave.woodhall]

@ Clampy & Mister E

Nobody disagrees that Lerner has invested a vast amount into AVFC Ltd. 

Now why did he do that?  Was it because he wanted to be generous to some random football club?  Was it because he likes us Villa supporters and wants to subsidise our enjoyment?

Of course not.  He either made a vanity investment or he thought he could make a buck.  Either way I wouldn't care he'd been successful - it would have been a win-win.

But he hasn't been successful.  His returns have been abysmal.  That makes him a poor businessman and more importantly a poor chairman/owner of AVFC in my eyes.  I can't really see why anyone would find this contentious.

I don't think he looked at it from a purely business point of view at all. He didn't want to lose money, but I think his over-riding aim was something he could enjoy. Whether he still does or doesn't, I don't know and neither does anyone else. It may be that once his personal situation changes he will be here more often. We don't know. We also, in saying he's failed, forget the three top sixes which were unique in post-war history and in saying that the debt conversion is just a business move that helps him more than it does us ignore the fact that he can't claim interest on the £90 million. 

[lovejoy]

I think this is called confirmation bias.

[Clampy]

@ Clampy & Mister E

Nobody disagrees that Lerner has invested a vast amount into AVFC Ltd. 

Now why did he do that?  Was it because he wanted to be generous to some random football club?  Was it because he likes us Villa supporters and wants to subsidise our enjoyment?

Of course not.  He either made a vanity investment or he thought he could make a buck.  Either way I wouldn't care he'd been successful - it would have been a win-win.

But he hasn't been successful.  His returns have been abysmal.  That makes him a poor businessman and more importantly a poor chairman/owner of AVFC in my eyes.  I can't really see why anyone would find this contentious.

Or maybe he wanted to run a football club in England?

He chose to buy us. God yeah, he's made some bloody bad choices along the way and yes, it could be better at the moment but i'm grateful for the vast amount of money he's put in.

[glasses]

Will he be paid a dividend on the investment in the club of £90m?

[Fred]

I think Lerner gave all the money to MON who (in my opinion) did not spend it well. Bit like Doug gave money to JG and (in my opinion) it was not spent well.

I wonder if any owner (Chelsea/Man City aside) enjoy owning a football club?

[oldhill_avfc]

@ Clampy & Mister E

Nobody disagrees that Lerner has invested a vast amount into AVFC Ltd. 

Now why did he do that?  Was it because he wanted to be generous to some random football club?  Was it because he likes us Villa supporters and wants to subsidise our enjoyment?

Of course not.  He either made a vanity investment or he thought he could make a buck.  Either way I wouldn't care he'd been successful - it would have been a win-win.

But he hasn't been successful.  His returns have been abysmal.  That makes him a poor businessman and more importantly a poor chairman/owner of AVFC in my eyes.  I can't really see why anyone would find this contentious.

I don't think he looked at it from a purely business point of view at all. He didn't want to lose money, but I think his over-riding aim was something he could enjoy. Whether he still does or doesn't, I don't know and neither does anyone else. It may be that once his personal situation changes he will be here more often. We don't know. We also, in saying he's failed, forget the three top sixes which were unique in post-war history and in saying that the debt conversion is just a business move that helps him more than it does us ignore the fact that he can't claim interest on the £90 million.

I agree with most  of that.

The interest is a bit of red herring though.  Claiming interest back to RAL acquisitions or whatever simply increases the losses.  Ultimately that makes AVFC less profitable and less valuable.  He can either have the interest or the equity value - it all amounts to the same thing in theory.

[oldhill_avfc]

Will he be paid a dividend on the investment in the club of £90m?

The total dividend amount would be set and divided by the number of shares.  If you own all the shares it makes no difference how many there are.  The total amount remains the same.

[dave.woodhall]

I think Lerner gave all the money to MON who (in my opinion) did not spend it well. Bit like Doug gave money to JG and (in my opinion) it was not spent well.

I wonder if any owner (Chelsea/Man City aside) enjoy owning a football club?

At this point I feel duty-bound to point out that Randy gave his money to O'Neill. Doug gave the club's.

[oldhill_avfc]

I think this is called confirmation bias.

I don't. 

I have been very consistent in my criticism of Lerner and his management team (under a previous member name).

[Ad@m]

Will he be paid a dividend on the investment in the club of £90m?

No he won't.  The losses built up in the club mean he's not legally allowed to pay a dividend.

The actual accounts are now out - I'm having a quick look through them on my lunch break and will summarise anything interesting.

[oldhill_avfc]

I think Lerner gave all the money to MON who (in my opinion) did not spend it well. Bit like Doug gave money to JG and (in my opinion) it was not spent well.

I wonder if any owner (Chelsea/Man City aside) enjoy owning a football club?

At this point I feel duty-bound to point out that Randy gave his money to O'Neill. Doug gave the club's.

At the time they both gave the club's money to the respective managers.

They both 'invested' on behalf of the shareholders - who would share proportionately in the risk and gains.

[dave.woodhall]

I think Lerner gave all the money to MON who (in my opinion) did not spend it well. Bit like Doug gave money to JG and (in my opinion) it was not spent well.

I wonder if any owner (Chelsea/Man City aside) enjoy owning a football club?

At this point I feel duty-bound to point out that Randy gave his money to O'Neill. Doug gave the club's.

At the time they both gave the club's money to the respective managers.

They both 'invested' on behalf of the shareholders - who would share proportionately in the risk and gains.

It was still Randy giving his own money while Doug gave someone else's.

[Fred]

I think Lerner gave all the money to MON who (in my opinion) did not spend it well. Bit like Doug gave money to JG and (in my opinion) it was not spent well.

I wonder if any owner (Chelsea/Man City aside) enjoy owning a football club?

At this point I feel duty-bound to point out that Randy gave his money to O'Neill. Doug gave the club's.

At the time they both gave the club's money to the respective managers.

They both 'invested' on behalf of the shareholders - who would share proportionately in the risk and gains.

It was still Randy giving his own money while Doug gave someone else's.

But it is fair to say that for both Randy and Doug there managers did not spend the money as well as they could.

[dave.woodhall]

I think Lerner gave all the money to MON who (in my opinion) did not spend it well. Bit like Doug gave money to JG and (in my opinion) it was not spent well.

I wonder if any owner (Chelsea/Man City aside) enjoy owning a football club?

At this point I feel duty-bound to point out that Randy gave his money to O'Neill. Doug gave the club's.

At the time they both gave the club's money to the respective managers.

They both 'invested' on behalf of the shareholders - who would share proportionately in the risk and gains.

It was still Randy giving his own money while Doug gave someone else's.

But it is fair to say that for both Randy and Doug there managers did not spend the money as well as they could.

It's an understatement of 'Carsen Yeung is a bit of a wide boy' proportions.