Transfer Speculation / Gossip

[RussellC]

That's a different question though isn't it. There are a lot of variables to consider; the Stoke three are not up to much even on their day, while Andi and Gabby's form has been poor this past season, yet we know in the case of Gabby he looks a world beater on his day. Bent scores goals and has scored probably more than the rest combined.

So Gabby, who averages about 1 in 4 for Villa is a "world beater on his day" but Crouch, who has a better than 1 in 2 ration for England is "not up to much even on his day"...?!

[kippaxvilla2]

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-transfer-talk-alan-7452065

Is anyone willing to wager that in fact he has demanded no such talks

[Toronto Villa]

Russell, i think the point being made is that Weimann, Bent, Kozak and Benteke will score goals if you supply them. Our issue last season was supply, since which we have added Richardson, Cole and Nzogbia who will create more than KEA, Bennett and Weimann did out wide I would think. Adding to the supply line is much more important than bolstering the knives.

this team has always had goals in it. It was demonstrated for all to see the season before last. What dried up to devastating effect was the supply line as you point out, and injuries to key players on top of that, followed finally by a loss of confidence. If Bent stays, you know have a variety of strikers who don't all play the same way. None of them will do what Benteke can do but individually they are capable of finding the net. What we need, and still need is a legitimate visionary in the middle. Cole and N'Zog will do it on occasion, but neither can be relied upon consistently. Whether the answer is width through full backs with Richardson overlapping or a genuine winger, the answer is the same. Lambert needs to fugure out how to get the ball into kay areas of the pitch to take advantage of our striking potential.

[paul_e]

I guess it depends on how you look at it. One way is to ask, would you rather start the season with Wiemann, Agbonlahor and Bent upfront, or with Crouch, Odemwingie and Walters. I know which trio I'd rather go with.

I'd go with our three and again you're missing the point. Add Benteke and Kozak to those three and it looks a decent bunch of strikers to choose from. Who have Stoke got to add to Crouch, Odemwingie and Walters?

I'm not missing the point, I'm just trying to respond to it whilst actually taking into account the fact that our main 2 centre forwards are seriously injured. And his actual point was "forward options" which, to me, isn't exclusive to centre-forwards.

Yes you are missing the point entirely. He said we have as good forward options as any in the bottom half. Forget the fact that Bentke and Kozak are injured. I know they are but if they wasn't, it's a good argument to make. We might need some flair thrown in somewhere along the way and hopefully N'Zogbia and Cole might bring that in.

I think you're struggling to grass the difference between 'missing the point' and 'disagreeing with it'. If we're ignoring the fact that Benteke and Kozak are injured then it's equally as pertinent to ignore the fact that Dean Saunders, Dwight Yorke and Pongo Waring are all retired and we're actually blessed with a free-scoring forward line. It's also about as pertinent as pining your hopes of creativity on a player who hasn't played for 12 months, and one has hasn't been any good for about 5 years.

Last season, of the teams that finished in the bottom half and stayed up (Fulham actually outscored us), only Palace and Hull scored less goals than us. I've seen nothing change in the current squad that makes me confident that we have "better forwards options" than the likes of Swansea, Newcastle, Hull and Stoke.

Benteke and Kozak will play more games than they miss this season so they're perfectly entitled to be counted as Aston Villa forwards for the 2014-15 season, your point about players who long retired or dead is just bizarre.

[ozzjim]

He looked happy enough last night. I would imagine if he is going to get games, he will be happy to see it out now and get a bigger deal on a free next summer, knowing if he plays well this then that will be a bigger pay packet.

[Clampy]

That's a different question though isn't it. There are a lot of variables to consider; the Stoke three are not up to much even on their day, while Andi and Gabby's form has been poor this past season, yet we know in the case of Gabby he looks a world beater on his day. Bent scores goals and has scored probably more than the rest combined.

So Gabby, who averages about 1 in 4 for Villa is a "world beater on his day" but Crouch, who has a better than 1 in 2 ration for England is "not up to much even on his day"...?!

You forgot to throw in Odemwingie who a struggling Cardiff got rid of and the free scoring Jonathan Walters.

Actually, i'm surprised Stanley Matthews didn't get a mention.

[ozzjim]

Russell, i think the point being made is that Weimann, Bent, Kozak and Benteke will score goals if you supply them. Our issue last season was supply, since which we have added Richardson, Cole and Nzogbia who will create more than KEA, Bennett and Weimann did out wide I would think. Adding to the supply line is much more important than bolstering the knives.

this team has always had goals in it. It was demonstrated for all to see the season before last. What dried up to devastating effect was the supply line as you point out, and injuries to key players on top of that, followed finally by a loss of confidence. If Bent stays, you know have a variety of strikers who don't all play the same way. None of them will do what Benteke can do but individually they are capable of finding the net. What we need, and still need is a legitimate visionary in the middle. Cole and N'Zog will do it on occasion, but neither can be relied upon consistently. Whether the answer is width through full backs with Richardson overlapping or a genuine winger, the answer is the same. Lambert needs to fugure out how to get the ball into kay areas of the pitch to take advantage of our striking potential.

Which is the reason he wants Ki, and I would wager the reason he used Westwood so deep yesterday.

[Ads]

That's a different question though isn't it. There are a lot of variables to consider; the Stoke three are not up to much even on their day, while Andi and Gabby's form has been poor this past season, yet we know in the case of Gabby he looks a world beater on his day. Bent scores goals and has scored probably more than the rest combined.

So Gabby, who averages about 1 in 4 for Villa is a "world beater on his day" but Crouch, who has a better than 1 in 2 ration for England is "not up to much even on his day"...?!

Until Stoke start playing Trinidad and Tobago, I won't worry. I have seen Gabby score some of the most important goals of our most recent history. He is the opposite of a flat track bully and I will agree, so in and out of form it is untrue. But I would rather have him up fron than Crouch.

[RussellC]

Russell, i think the point being made is that Weimann, Bent, Kozak and Benteke will score goals if you supply them. Our issue last season was supply, since which we have added Richardson, Cole and Nzogbia who will create more than KEA, Bennett and Weimann did out wide I would think. Adding to the supply line is much more important than bolstering the knives.

Oz, I fully understand the point, and you've hit the nail on the head by adding "if you supply them." My point was that the likes of Crouch, Walters and Odemwingie will score goals, and I fully expect them to be supplied. Same with the likes of Long and Jelavic at Hull, Cisse and Revelliere at Newcastle, Bony and Gomis at Swansea.  They all have, in my opinion, much better lines of supply than we do.

Bent as we all know is a player who relies on service. From what I've seen of Kozak he'll be the same, albeit in a different mould. Wiemann and Gabby were both poor last season. If we want to compare our 'forward options' to those of the clubs in and around us, then fine, but I really don't see the point is brushing over their form, fitness or where they'll fit into our team whilst doing so.

[RussellC]

You forgot to throw in Odemwingie who a struggling Cardiff got rid of and the free scoring Jonathan Walters.

In the last 4 seasons Walters has scored 39 goals for Stoke, Compared to gabby's contribution of 27 for us. Last season Odemwingie scored as many league goals for Stoke in 15 games as Wiemann did for us in 24.

[Ads]

Russell, i think the point being made is that Weimann, Bent, Kozak and Benteke will score goals if you supply them. Our issue last season was supply, since which we have added Richardson, Cole and Nzogbia who will create more than KEA, Bennett and Weimann did out wide I would think. Adding to the supply line is much more important than bolstering the knives.

Oz, I fully understand the point, and you've hit the nail on the head by adding "if you supply them." My point was that the likes of Crouch, Walters and Odemwingie will score goals, and I fully expect them to be supplied. Same with the likes of Long and Jelavic at Hull, Cisse and Revelliere at Newcastle, Bony and Gomis at Swansea.  They all have, in my opinion, much better lines of supply than we do.

Which is an entirely different argument. People have been saying for a long time that the midfield needs to improve in a lot of aspects, but that doesn't alter the quality of the forwards.

[Ads]

You forgot to throw in Odemwingie who a struggling Cardiff got rid of and the free scoring Jonathan Walters.

In the last 4 seasons Walters has scored 39 goals for Stoke, Compared to gabby's contribution of 27 for us. Last season Odemwingie scored as many league goals for Stoke in 15 games as Wiemann did for us in 24.

Both Walters and Odenwinge played up front last season. Short of Hull at home, Gabby and Andi played out wide.

Walters also takes Stoke's penalties, while Gabby and Andi are also not our best forwards.

[ozzjim]

Agreed Ads. Every club from about 8th downwards would swap their strikers for ours I reckon.


None of them would swap their midfield/ wide players.

[Clampy]

Russell, i think the point being made is that Weimann, Bent, Kozak and Benteke will score goals if you supply them. Our issue last season was supply, since which we have added Richardson, Cole and Nzogbia who will create more than KEA, Bennett and Weimann did out wide I would think. Adding to the supply line is much more important than bolstering the knives.

Oz, I fully understand the point, and you've hit the nail on the head by adding "if you supply them." My point was that the likes of Crouch, Walters and Odemwingie will score goals, and I fully expect them to be supplied. Same with the likes of Long and Jelavic at Hull, Cisse and Revelliere at Newcastle, Bony and Gomis at Swansea.  They all have, in my opinion, much better lines of supply than we do.

Which is an entirely different argument. People have been saying for a long time that the midfield needs to improve in a lot of aspects, but that doesn't alter the quality of the forwards.

Exactly. I don't think I've ever come across a poster missing the point as much as Russell has. Now he's talking about 'lines of supply' when his first comparison to Weimman, Bent and Gabby was Crouch, Walters (ah-em) and Odemwingie. I believe it's what is known as backtracking.

[pauliewalnuts]

You forgot to throw in Odemwingie who a struggling Cardiff got rid of and the free scoring Jonathan Walters.

In the last 4 seasons Walters has scored 39 goals for Stoke, Compared to gabby's contribution of 27 for us. Last season Odemwingie scored as many league goals for Stoke in 15 games as Wiemann did for us in 24.

Both Walters and Odenwinge played up front last season. Short of Hull at home, Gabby and Andi played out wide.

Walters also takes Stoke's penalties, while Gabby and Andi are also not our best forwards.

I agree with you, I'd take our striker line up - with or without the two injured players, probably - ahead of Stoke's any day of the week.

However, I have to admit, I'd be totally unbothered to see Gabby shipped out. He looks to me like a player who has been on auto-pilot for far too long, in fact, I'd say he sums up the sort of drifting mediocrity of the club in recent years.

On his day, he can be brilliant, the problem is, we see that day less and less as time passes.