Transfer Speculation / Gossip

[Gregorys Boy]

I guess it depends on how you look at it. One way is to ask, would you rather start the season with Wiemann, Agbonlahor and Bent upfront, or with Crouch, Odemwingie and Walters. I know which trio I'd rather go with.

The thing is - in my honest opinion - unless Benteke is one of the 3 front players, it's a pretty blunt attack. Gabby and Wiemann certainly look lost without him and, as we all know, Bent is a completely different player. Gabby, Bent and Wiemann are all capable of scoring goals individually, but as a trio the lack of creativity between them is frightening. When you factor in that we don't have a lot of creativity in the midfield (and virtually none from out wide) I'd say that, as per last year, we'll struggle to score as many goals as the likes of Swansea, Stoke, Newcastle and Hull again.

I agree on the likes of Gabby and Weinmann, but Weinmann is still young and does have other things to his game than goals.  Also, if Kozak lives up to his promise off last season then he should be able to share the goals with CB.

[Clampy]

I guess it depends on how you look at it. One way is to ask, would you rather start the season with Wiemann, Agbonlahor and Bent upfront, or with Crouch, Odemwingie and Walters. I know which trio I'd rather go with.

I'd go with our three and again you're missing the point. Add Benteke and Kozak to those three and it looks a decent bunch of strikers to choose from. Who have Stoke got to add to Crouch, Odemwingie and Walters?

[ozzjim]

I think the biggest thing this season is getting that midfield right. We are covered at the back providing Vlaar stays, and at full back Hutton and Richardson are essentially mid table premiership players. Cole and NZogbia look set to play the number 10 role between them. My issue is width, and strength through the middle. I would love us to go out and use our budget on just 2 quality players that are genuinely gettable and would make a big difference. Ashley Young would be high up on that list with the forwards we have, he would be ideal to get crosses in and make things happen, and I reckon would come back like a shot if it was a decent deal. Then someone like Fer from Norwich and maybe a player in the mould of the defensive midfielder at Blues that is athletic and powerful. Ki looks dead in the water at the moment unfortunately. Ki, Young and Fer and we would be very comfortably mid table come may, but would likely be out of our budget. Bent, Kozak, Benteke et al will score goals.

Gardner might, might give us the more physical athletic option we need. Just pray he stays fit and builds confidence.

[supertom]

I guess it depends on how you look at it. One way is to ask, would you rather start the season with Wiemann, Agbonlahor and Bent upfront, or with Crouch, Odemwingie and Walters. I know which trio I'd rather go with.

The thing is - in my honest opinion - unless Benteke is one of the 3 front players, it's a pretty blunt attack. Gabby and Wiemann certainly look lost without him and, as we all know, Bent is a completely different player. Gabby, Bent and Wiemann are all capable of scoring goals individually, but as a trio the lack of creativity between them is frightening. When you factor in that we don't have a lot of creativity in the midfield (and virtually none from out wide) I'd say that, as per last year, we'll struggle to score as many goals as the likes of Swansea, Stoke, Newcastle and Hull again.

It was interesting to see us playing two systems last night, neither of which had 3 up top. I would assume that Lambert wants to look at a different style of player, something perhaps a bit more considered. As a two up top Bent and Weimann actually worked quite well. Andi is better through the middle, allowed to pull out wide and he'll do the leg work that Bent wouldn't for example and also create space for Bent to find in the box.

I think in 60 odd games over the last couple of seasons, it's become increasingly more apparent that Weimann shouldn't play wide. In addition, Gabby's time being written in the team sheet in permanent marker is over.

Re-instating N'Zogbia and Bent may be an almighty back track and arguably a sign of desperation but it's still (at one time) over 30 million quids worth of talent. Cole has the quality to change games, even if he doesn't have the legs to do it every week any more. He's also a midfielder custom made for a striker like Bent.

The midfield is still a worry. Sign Ki and perhaps one more attacking midfield option, and we'll be done and dusted this window I think.

I think we'll score more than last season. That shouldn't be hard of course. I also think we'll concede less. Again...shouldn't be hard. I fancy us to be more comfortable than the last three years.

[RussellC]

I guess it depends on how you look at it. One way is to ask, would you rather start the season with Wiemann, Agbonlahor and Bent upfront, or with Crouch, Odemwingie and Walters. I know which trio I'd rather go with.

I'd go with our three and again you're missing the point. Add Benteke and Kozak to those three and it looks a decent bunch of strikers to choose from. Who have Stoke got to add to Crouch, Odemwingie and Walters?

I'm not missing the point, I'm just trying to respond to it whilst actually taking into account the fact that our main 2 centre forwards are seriously injured. And his actual point was "forward options" which, to me, isn't exclusive to centre-forwards.

[Clampy]

I guess it depends on how you look at it. One way is to ask, would you rather start the season with Wiemann, Agbonlahor and Bent upfront, or with Crouch, Odemwingie and Walters. I know which trio I'd rather go with.

I'd go with our three and again you're missing the point. Add Benteke and Kozak to those three and it looks a decent bunch of strikers to choose from. Who have Stoke got to add to Crouch, Odemwingie and Walters?

I'm not missing the point, I'm just trying to respond to it whilst actually taking into account the fact that our main 2 centre forwards are seriously injured. And his actual point was "forward options" which, to me, isn't exclusive to centre-forwards.

Yes you are missing the point entirely. He said we have as good forward options as any in the bottom half. Forget the fact that Bentke and Kozak are injured. I know they are but if they wasn't, it's a good argument to make. We might need some flair thrown in somewhere along the way and hopefully N'Zogbia and Cole might bring that in.

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I guess it depends on how you look at it. One way is to ask, would you rather start the season with Wiemann, Agbonlahor and Bent upfront, or with Crouch, Odemwingie and Walters. I know which trio I'd rather go with.

That's a different question though isn't it. There are a lot of variables to consider; the Stoke three are not up to much even on their day, while Andi and Gabby's form has been poor this past season, yet we know in the case of Gabby he looks a world beater on his day. Bent scores goals and has scored probably more than the rest combined.

Going back to what I said, I don't think its even arguable. Benteke is better than pretty much every forward in the league and miles ahead of anything else in the bottom half.

[paul_e]

Benteke - 10-15 (depending on how much he plays)
Kozak - 10
Gabby - 5
Weimann - 5-10 (depending on his position)
Bent - 5-10 (depending on how much he plays)

I admire the optimism.

Two forwards coming back from long-term injuries to get 20-25 goals between them? Really?

It's what they're capable of, which is probably what he meant.

Correct, we don't know when they'll be back of how quickly they'll be up and running but we do know that Benteke is roughly a 1 in 2 striker and Kozak is roughly a 1 in 3 striker so if they both get between 20-30 games those figures are going to be fairly close.

[RussellC]

I guess it depends on how you look at it. One way is to ask, would you rather start the season with Wiemann, Agbonlahor and Bent upfront, or with Crouch, Odemwingie and Walters. I know which trio I'd rather go with.

I'd go with our three and again you're missing the point. Add Benteke and Kozak to those three and it looks a decent bunch of strikers to choose from. Who have Stoke got to add to Crouch, Odemwingie and Walters?

I'm not missing the point, I'm just trying to respond to it whilst actually taking into account the fact that our main 2 centre forwards are seriously injured. And his actual point was "forward options" which, to me, isn't exclusive to centre-forwards.

Yes you are missing the point entirely. He said we have as good forward options as any in the bottom half. Forget the fact that Bentke and Kozak are injured. I know they are but if they wasn't, it's a good argument to make. We might need some flair thrown in somewhere along the way and hopefully N'Zogbia and Cole might bring that in.

I think you're struggling to grass the difference between 'missing the point' and 'disagreeing with it'. If we're ignoring the fact that Benteke and Kozak are injured then it's equally as pertinent to ignore the fact that Dean Saunders, Dwight Yorke and Pongo Waring are all retired and we're actually blessed with a free-scoring forward line. It's also about as pertinent as pining your hopes of creativity on a player who hasn't played for 12 months, and one has hasn't been any good for about 5 years.

Last season, of the teams that finished in the bottom half and stayed up (Fulham actually outscored us), only Palace and Hull scored less goals than us. I've seen nothing change in the current squad that makes me confident that we have "better forwards options" than the likes of Swansea, Newcastle, Hull and Stoke.

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To paraphrase Clinton, "it's the midfield stupid!".

It's not a novel argument to say the midfield needs work, we've all been saying it for seasons now. We need somebody capable of shielding the back four/three and somebody capable of injecting impetus in attack. We also need a re-think in philosophy of how we treat the ball. We must learn to show patience and to probe, which involves movement, something we have struggled with.

It was promising last night to see Gardner start a move forty yards for goal and have the thought to move into space. We have good forwards, Cole and N'Zogbia offer some attacking intent for where we are at the moment, while a three at the back system allows our full/wing backs to really press on. But it counts for nothing if the midfield isn't winning the ball, keeping the ball and using it effectively.

 

[Clampy]

I guess it depends on how you look at it. One way is to ask, would you rather start the season with Wiemann, Agbonlahor and Bent upfront, or with Crouch, Odemwingie and Walters. I know which trio I'd rather go with.

I'd go with our three and again you're missing the point. Add Benteke and Kozak to those three and it looks a decent bunch of strikers to choose from. Who have Stoke got to add to Crouch, Odemwingie and Walters?

I'm not missing the point, I'm just trying to respond to it whilst actually taking into account the fact that our main 2 centre forwards are seriously injured. And his actual point was "forward options" which, to me, isn't exclusive to centre-forwards.

Yes you are missing the point entirely. He said we have as good forward options as any in the bottom half. Forget the fact that Bentke and Kozak are injured. I know they are but if they wasn't, it's a good argument to make. We might need some flair thrown in somewhere along the way and hopefully N'Zogbia and Cole might bring that in.

I think you're struggling to grass the difference between 'missing the point' and 'disagreeing with it'. If we're ignoring the fact that Benteke and Kozak are injured then it's equally as pertinent to ignore the fact that Dean Saunders, Dwight Yorke and Pongo Waring are all retired and we're actually blessed with a free-scoring forward line. It's also about as pertinent as pining your hopes of creativity on a player who hasn't played for 12 months, and one has hasn't been any good for about 5 years.

Firstly, the Saunders, Yorke and Pongo comparison is ridiculous because they're not due back to play for us in a few months time. Besides, one of them hasn't retired, he's dead.

And who said I was pining my hopes on Cole and N'Zogbia? I said we need some more flair in there and they might help us. We do need more though.

[ozzjim]

Russell, i think the point being made is that Weimann, Bent, Kozak and Benteke will score goals if you supply them. Our issue last season was supply, since which we have added Richardson, Cole and Nzogbia who will create more than KEA, Bennett and Weimann did out wide I would think. Adding to the supply line is much more important than bolstering the knives.

[dave.woodhall]

I think you're struggling to grass the difference between 'missing the point' and 'disagreeing with it'. If we're ignoring the fact that Benteke and Kozak are injured then it's equally as pertinent to ignore the fact that Dean Saunders, Dwight Yorke and Pongo Waring are all retired

How do you work that out? Benteke and Kozak will play for most of the season.

[supertom]

Watching the goals again from last night it was interesting to see the move for the second goal starting in our own half with none other than Darren Bent. He seemed far more willing than normal to involve himself in the build up. He showed plenty of desire to impress too (a lot more than Gabby to be honest). Bent may well decide it's in his interest to put himself about a bit more in the build up play. He's got a great opportunity early doors to cement his place before the return of Kozak and Benteke.

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I think you're struggling to grass the difference between 'missing the point' and 'disagreeing with it'. If we're ignoring the fact that Benteke and Kozak are injured then it's equally as pertinent to ignore the fact that Dean Saunders, Dwight Yorke and Pongo Waring are all retired

How do you work that out? Benteke and Kozak will play for most of the season.

And if they have a midfield that has the ball more often than not and a midfield (and full backs) capable of creating, then those two will score significantly more goals than anybody else in the bottom half. In Benteke's case, more than most in the league.