The Paul Lambert thread - poll reset after our capitulation to Hull

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Cheap and inferior aren't exclusive bedfellows.

Sanchez is a lot cheaper than Sidwell, by a good £1.5 million in fees and I would imagine the same again per anum in wages.

[Clampy]

I am encouraged by new signings and Delph committing long term and I'm hopeful this will have a positive impact on us, so I'm looking forward to going down to Arsenal and seeing what we can do.

Gil looks decent, but yet again we find ourselves scratching around the bargain basement for players even though we're deep in trouble at the foot of the table.
Forgive me if some of us aren't as excited as you.

If the price of a player dictated your form, Newcastle, Spurs, Stoke, QPR and Liverpool would be counting their trophies. I have no problem with our scouts or the money we spend on players, it's what we do with them that's the issue. Lambert has gone out of his way to demonstrate what a poor manager he is despite having a decent squad to work with.

That's all well and good, but you must be mindful of the fact that our decline started when Lerner decided to rid our club of most of our better players and replaced them with cheap inferior ones.

We spent £18m on Bent, £9.5m on N'Zogbia and £7m each on Benteke and Kozak during the time that I think most people would consider to be part of the decline.

And £6.5m on Jean Makoun.

[saunders_heroes]

I am encouraged by new signings and Delph committing long term and I'm hopeful this will have a positive impact on us, so I'm looking forward to going down to Arsenal and seeing what we can do.

Gil looks decent, but yet again we find ourselves scratching around the bargain basement for players even though we're deep in trouble at the foot of the table.
Forgive me if some of us aren't as excited as you.

If the price of a player dictated your form, Newcastle, Spurs, Stoke, QPR and Liverpool would be counting their trophies. I have no problem with our scouts or the money we spend on players, it's what we do with them that's the issue. Lambert has gone out of his way to demonstrate what a poor manager he is despite having a decent squad to work with.

That's all well and good, but you must be mindful of the fact that our decline started when Lerner decided to rid our club of most of our better players and replaced them with cheap inferior ones.

We spent £18m on Bent, £9.5m on N'Zogbia and £7m each on Benteke and Kozak during the time that I think most people would consider to be part of the decline.

I don't disagree that we're spending a hell of a lot less than we used to, but the issue is far more what the manager is doing with the players over what the chairman is giving him to purchase them.

I disagree. Our decline (in my opinion) is 100% down to Lerner refusing to pay transfer fees/wages like he did when he first took over. Yes he still made the occasional big signing post O'Neill but even they have dried up now, and none of the players you listed ever kick a ball for us these days (other than Benteke).
You get what you pay for in life. We scratch around the bargain basement for players and it should come as no surprise that we scratch around the foot of the table.

[saunders_heroes]

Cheap and inferior aren't exclusive bedfellows.

Sanchez is a lot cheaper than Sidwell, by a good £1.5 million in fees and I would imagine the same again per anum in wages.

That's true of course, but league positions don't lie. When Lerner invested in the squad we were perennial top 6 material. Now we're bottom 6 material.

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That's because over the past three seasons we've only signed Benteke, Vlaar, Okore, Kozak, Sanchez and Gil at reasonable fees. When you're trying to rebuild a squad from the shambles of what went before, that is quality spread far too thin.

I think Westwood is a good player and has something to offer, but by and large, when you're looking at £0 to £1m you'll get far more misses than hits

[Clampy]

I am encouraged by new signings and Delph committing long term and I'm hopeful this will have a positive impact on us, so I'm looking forward to going down to Arsenal and seeing what we can do.

Gil looks decent, but yet again we find ourselves scratching around the bargain basement for players even though we're deep in trouble at the foot of the table.
Forgive me if some of us aren't as excited as you.

If the price of a player dictated your form, Newcastle, Spurs, Stoke, QPR and Liverpool would be counting their trophies. I have no problem with our scouts or the money we spend on players, it's what we do with them that's the issue. Lambert has gone out of his way to demonstrate what a poor manager he is despite having a decent squad to work with.

That's all well and good, but you must be mindful of the fact that our decline started when Lerner decided to rid our club of most of our better players and replaced them with cheap inferior ones.

We spent £18m on Bent, £9.5m on N'Zogbia and £7m each on Benteke and Kozak during the time that I think most people would consider to be part of the decline.

I don't disagree that we're spending a hell of a lot less than we used to, but the issue is far more what the manager is doing with the players over what the chairman is giving him to purchase them.

I disagree. Our decline (in my opinion) is 100% down to Lerner refusing to pay transfer fees/wages like he did when he first took over. Yes he still made the occasional big signing post O'Neill but even they have dried up now, and none of the players you listed ever kick a ball for us these days (other than Benteke).

Just because some of the players that Dave mentioned are no longer regulars is neither here or there. Besides, there's a reason why Kozak dosen't kick a ball for us.

As for the wages, they had to come down. I can only imagine the wage bill was enormous.

[saunders_heroes]

That's because over the past three seasons we've only signed Benteke, Okore, Kozak, Sanchez and Gil at reasonable fees. When you're trying to rebuild a squad from the shambles of what went before, that is quality spread far too thin.

These last 5 season have been an absolute shambles, never mind what went on before.

[Dave]

I am encouraged by new signings and Delph committing long term and I'm hopeful this will have a positive impact on us, so I'm looking forward to going down to Arsenal and seeing what we can do.

Gil looks decent, but yet again we find ourselves scratching around the bargain basement for players even though we're deep in trouble at the foot of the table.
Forgive me if some of us aren't as excited as you.

If the price of a player dictated your form, Newcastle, Spurs, Stoke, QPR and Liverpool would be counting their trophies. I have no problem with our scouts or the money we spend on players, it's what we do with them that's the issue. Lambert has gone out of his way to demonstrate what a poor manager he is despite having a decent squad to work with.

That's all well and good, but you must be mindful of the fact that our decline started when Lerner decided to rid our club of most of our better players and replaced them with cheap inferior ones.

We spent £18m on Bent, £9.5m on N'Zogbia and £7m each on Benteke and Kozak during the time that I think most people would consider to be part of the decline.

I don't disagree that we're spending a hell of a lot less than we used to, but the issue is far more what the manager is doing with the players over what the chairman is giving him to purchase them.

I disagree. Our decline (in my opinion) is 100% down to Lerner refusing to pay transfer fees/wages like he did when he first took over. Yes he still made the occasional big signing post O'Neill but even they have dried up now, and none of the players you listed ever kick a ball for us these days (other than Benteke).
You get what you pay for in life. We scratch around the bargain basement for players and it should come as no surprise that we scratch around the foot of the table.

West Brom haven't got £10m worth out of Ideye Brown. Liverpool haven't got £16m worth out of Mario Balotelli. I wouldn't swap £4m Jores Okore for £32m Eliaquim Mangala or £20m Dejan Lovren.

When O'Neill was buying a whole new defence every summer were we getting what we were paying for? In life you might, but in football you tend not to. The wages is probably a big thing at the moment, the transfer fees less so.

As for our decline being "100% down to Lerner refusing to pay transfer fees/wages like he did", so you're not apportioning any of the blame at all to Lambert? You think he's doing the best he possibly can with the resources at his disposal?

[saunders_heroes]

Lambert was employed by Lerner and is working within the pitiful budget offered to him by the man at the top.
The buck stops with Lerner.

[Dave]

Fair enough.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

Our decline (in my opinion) is 100% down to Lerner refusing to pay transfer fees/wages like he did when he first took over. Yes he still made the occasional big signing post O'Neill but even they have dried up now, and none of the players you listed ever kick a ball for us these days (other than Benteke).
You get what you pay for in life. We scratch around the bargain basement for players and it should come as no surprise that we scratch around the foot of the table.

Lerner's biggest problem has been working with poor managers since Day 1. He's spent more than a club like ours can afford yet you still want him to spend more, putting the club further into debt. I'd guess you expect him to right off the debt every season, keep season ticket prices as some of the cheapest in the PL, attract the top sponsorship and kit deals, sign expensive players on ridiculous wages to play in a stadium we rarely fill whilst still maintaining our tradition and not becoming the new Chelsea.

Sorry to be the one to tell you but it ain't gonna happen.

[itbrvilla]

Lambert was employed by Lerner and is working within the pitiful budget offered to him by the man at the top.
The buck stops with Lerner.

Out of curiosity, do you think Lambert is getting the most out of the players he has?

[saunders_heroes]

Our decline (in my opinion) is 100% down to Lerner refusing to pay transfer fees/wages like he did when he first took over. Yes he still made the occasional big signing post O'Neill but even they have dried up now, and none of the players you listed ever kick a ball for us these days (other than Benteke).
You get what you pay for in life. We scratch around the bargain basement for players and it should come as no surprise that we scratch around the foot of the table.

Lerner's biggest problem has been working with poor managers since Day 1. He's spent more than a club like ours can afford yet you still want him to spend more, putting the club further into debt. I'd guess you expect him to right off the debt every season, keep season ticket prices as some of the cheapest in the PL, attract the top sponsorship and kit deals, sign expensive players on ridiculous wages to play in a stadium we rarely fill whilst still maintaining our tradition and not becoming the new Chelsea.

Sorry to be the one to tell you but it ain't gonna happen.

Well it ain't gonna happen under Lerner that's for sure. Lots of fans fell for his bullshit PR in '06, but not anymore.

[saunders_heroes]

Lambert was employed by Lerner and is working within the pitiful budget offered to him by the man at the top.
The buck stops with Lerner.

Out of curiosity, do you think Lambert is getting the most out of the players he has?

Absolutely not. I want him out (and have done for 2 years now), but Lerner isn't capable of replacing him because he hasn't the ambition to get a decent replacement in and he won't give the new manager the budget required to get us out of this mess that he created. What ambitious manager would take over at Villa with such a tight fisted chairman in charge??

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I don't class Lerner's largesse as PR myself.