The Paul Lambert thread - poll reset after our capitulation to Hull

[Mister E]

In other news Everton (Everton?!!) post a profit of nearly £30m.
We seem to be getting it wrong in so many ways.

Fellani fee

Don't let facts get in the way of a good whinge.



... and anyway, they added nearly 30% to their revenue base, so it's not all about trading Fellaini out (particularly since they spent that on Lukaku).

[paul_e]

In your view we did the wrong thing extending Delph's contract then?  and shouldn't have signed Mcgrath or Laursen?

You have to trust the medical staff to follow their ethics and give an honest assessment, regardless of who they're employed by that's a legal requirement so commissioning their own doctors and getting independent views doesn't come into it, you have to trust, in that situation, that the doctor has done all the right checks.  I'm not saying doctors are infallible, everyone makes mistakes but you can't decide someone (who has chosen to apply for the job so 'semi-retirement with the french FA' doesn't come n to it) should be dismissed from the running on the basis of previous ill health.

As said hindsight is wonderful but if things had gone better that season and we'd been challenging for the top 4 before he went ill would it still have been a huge mistake?  To me the people who bring up his health are often allowing the fact that they didn't like him and we under-performed to sit alongside his subsequent health problems hen saying it was clearly a terrible error to employ him.  It wasn't and his appointment was nothing like as poor a decision as the 2 to which it has been compared above.

Nope you are putting words in my mouth, proverbially speaking. Please desist.

I would have had a heart specialist check Houllier's current health. Things didn't go better - it was a poor decision. Villa is not an easy club to manage.

I would not have signed Jenas on a season long loan when we had to pay all of his wages regardless of how much he played based on his history of injuries.

I would have ripped anyone's hands off to sign McGrath when we did. No brainer.
Laursen knew little about prior to him joining. 
And Delph deserves a contract extension assuming we have the finances and suitbale insurance cover.

You still miss the point, the bold bit, a heart specialist, who had operated on him, stated he was fit to return to work, we have to respect that decision, and rightly we did.  That it ddn't turn out as we hoped doesn't make that the wrong decision at the time.

Much like all the Villa fans chanting for Lambert aren't now wrong to have done that on the evidence of the last 2 years.

Jenas was a poor decision I agree, but it was a poor decision largely because he was a poor player anyway and we bypassed a lot of the protection that a loan deal would normally have afforded us.  I can only assume that was because AM was so convinced he was the right player that he was willing to take a risk on it.

Also the delph deal I'm on about is the contract Houllier gave him not the one we now want him to sign.  At that point we had a guy who had barely played through injury and had looked off the pace in the league when he had been available.  When you make a statement like "We shouldn't do it with a player with a history of injuries." The 3 I mentioned (2 recent club legends and one of the best players at the club currently) would all be players that would set off alarm bells (as would Vlaar, another of the better players at the club).

It's all about risk and reward, when we appointed Houllier the other names that were in the press included Curbishley and a very raw Koeman, it's not like we were beating Mourinho off with a stick. On that basis a guy who'd won numerous trophies and had a reputation for fit and mobile squads made sense when we'd just finished 4 years of a guy who had flogged his first 11 to the point where they fell to pieces in March every season.

It didn't work out as we hoped: the players didn't accept the extra fitness training; we had a huge number of injuries for pushing players too hard during the season when they hadn't built up the base fitness in the summer; he alienated a number of fans with comments and actions which were taken as belittling the club and then finally his heart problems returned just as things seemed to be coming together.  None of that means that he wasn't the right appointment at the time though.

McLeish was the wrong appointment, there was always too much baggage. Giving Lambert a new 4 year deal was the wrong decision, there was no need for it, offering him a 1year extension if you really think he deserves it would be understandable(ish) but 4 years will only ever be seen as Lerner giving him a golden handshake before the club gets sold, that's the only explanation for it.

[Mister E]

Raking over the coals of past decisions is interesting even if most resulting discussions have been done to death.

What concerns me most is that we are all seemingly sleepwalking into oblivion. Whereas in the early 2000's the fans made it patently clear that ellis and his bloody-stupid manager (DOL) were no longer welcome, now in the 2010's we have become incredibly docile.
Look at the situation with TSM: it took until Feb 28th (away at Wigan) for the voice of the fans to be really heard after a truly awful season. Now, with TSMII (a manager about whom I was very positive both before and after his appointment), we have:
-  a want-away Chairman who can't get out, apparently, through lack of interest from prospective buyers.
- suffered the ignominy of 2 seasons of utter dross, during which we have lost a season's worth of home games.
- a change in strategy, bringing in some reasonable experienced players, which seems to have actually exposed the manager's tactical ineptitude rather than bolster his decision to shift away from the kids-only approach.
- an assistant coach who is becoming a p.r. embarrassment and whose strengths appear not to be having any effect in the changing room.
- a season-ticket sales base that - I suspect - has plummeted this season.

It's crap; it's unacceptable ... and yet there's no hint of the fans really letting their feelings known. What is going on?



-

[mr underhill]

that just about nails it. no stone left unturned; it's the eve of destruction.

[paul_e]

From your list the one that concerns me is that Lerner doesn't seem to realise that us being dull as shit does nothing to help sell us.  Any prospective buyer will see a disinterested fanbase, rows of empty seats and an atmosphere capable of turning hostile at any point.  A change of manager right now would straight away address the first nad last of those, and a couple of good performances would go a long way towards fixing the third.

[Mister E]

From your list the one that concerns me is that Lerner doesn't seem to realise that us being dull as shit does nothing to help sell us.  Any prospective buyer will see a disinterested fanbase, rows of empty seats and an atmosphere capable of turning hostile at any point.  A change of manager right now would straight away address the first nad last of those, and a couple of good performances would go a long way towards fixing the third.

Hence my closing comment - something has to happen to shake off the lethargy around the place. Should it be the fans that wind up the pressure on RL or are we now just willing to take it or leave it?

[rob_bridge]

Paul_e - we can agree to disagree on the independent health check. It's not like he underwent a hip replacement. As stated, I would have requested one, as a measure of reassurance, to both parties prior to hiring. That isn't hindsight on - just good business sense. And bearing in mind out Life President is also Trustee of one of the most established hospitals in the region it wouldn'y have took too long. I'd call it due dilligence.

I thought it a poor hiring decision.  We weren't overburdened with candidates but it seemed we limited our selection to a narrow criteria of Premiership and experienced which in itself was a mistake.

Delph contract extension at the time 2011?. It would entirely depend on the terms. Namely basic wage, opportunity cost (loss / replacement) based on the fact we were supposed to be being more prudent than when he was initially signed. Slightly different scenario to Jenas.

Like others I have been proved completely wrong on Lambert. As he is here for a while longer, I live in hope for Villa's sake it turns out differently. Starting Sunday

Like others I have made other bad assessments. I was really happy we had Kinsella to replace Boateng as he is a 'better footballer'

[rob_bridge]

In other news Everton (Everton?!!) post a profit of nearly £30m.
We seem to be getting it wrong in so many ways.

Fellani fee

Don't let facts get in the way of a good whinge.



... and anyway, they added nearly 30% to their revenue base, so it's not all about trading Fellaini out (particularly since they spent that on Lukaku).

Is the Lukaku fee included in these figures. I made a working assumption that ir wasn't.

You are right about their revenues though. A very impressive increase in a short space of time. How much is due to TV?

It will be interesting to compare our increase.

[rob_bridge]

Mister E

We have been brow beaten into submission over the last 4 years to the piont where we would welcome the sanctuary of mid table mediocrity for a couple of seasons + a little bit of attacking intent. (See West Ham currently)

However another relegation battle looms on the horizon. I hope we can withstand the Relegation Maelstrom.

[Mister E]

Mister Bridge,

How does it feel to be browbeaten?
How far away are we realistically from the sanctuary?
Are we going to drift into the Relegation Maelstrom?

What are we all actually doing about it?

[rob_bridge]

Browbeaten - not good. Particularly as for the first time in 35 years or so I don't think much positive can happen in the short term. Treading Water at best.
Sanctuary - too far to tell. We need 28 points from 87 more available to be safe this year. Looked easily attainable less than two weeks ago

What can we do about it? Alas, a rhetorical question. I doubt any of us can pinpoint a prospective new owner and point him in Randy Lerner's direction.

As followers of Cardiff City and Newcastle United have found out, as well as our Nearest Neighbours, in this day and age there is not a great deal when the owner is the sole shareholder.

When all else fails, Pray.

However as a born again atheist I'll leave that to others.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

We have been brow beaten into submission over the last 4 years to the piont where we would welcome the sanctuary of mid table mediocrity for a couple of seasons + a little bit of attacking intent. (See West Ham currently)

However another relegation battle looms on the horizon. I hope we can withstand the Relegation Maelstrom.

All that may be true but on the plus side we have stability.

[Holte L2]

I had a dream last night that we sacked Lambert and replaced him with Thomas Tuchel from Mainz.

Unfortunately I woke up.

[brian green]

The stability of the graveyard. Good metaphor for All Hallows Eve.

[Tony Erdington]

im drinking with my mates down digbeth tonight, so we'll be going over all this stuff again and again, the life of a Villa fan is hard.

shlerp