The Paul Lambert thread - poll reset after our capitulation to Hull

[dave.woodhall]

Lambert's new 4 year contract is only beaten by the appointment of his predecessor in terms of stupidity.

I put them on a par. Both ludicrous and inexplicable.

Also - I'm not sure hiring a person with a history of heart disease was all too wise either. That was just plain stupid.

I don't accept the latter, his doctor had given him the all clear to return to work, that's enough to justify it, looking back with hindsight doesn't stop that being true at the point when we took him on.

I disagree unless Villa commissioned their own Doctors look at him. And by that I mean 2 for independent views. If they did then fair enough - I have never heard that.

We shouldn't do it with a player with a history of injuries. Although I suppose we did with Jenas but that is indicative of the amateurs we have become.

Jenas was the only player we've ever signed who'd had a few injuries?

[rob_bridge]

Paul_e I do however agree with you on Lambert.

Most of us were willing to give him the benefit of the doubt despite multiple debacles.

The compelte nosedive in form after the Chelsea win was alarming - it was and now is McLeish MKII.

After a brief respite at the start of the season we are now back to Groundhog Day

[Richard E]

With the benefit of 20-20 hindsight, the fact that Jenas was on a life support machine when he arrived at Bodymoor Heath to sign for us should have set some alarm bells ringing.

[rob_bridge]

Lambert's new 4 year contract is only beaten by the appointment of his predecessor in terms of stupidity.

I put them on a par. Both ludicrous and inexplicable.

Also - I'm not sure hiring a person with a history of heart disease was all too wise either. That was just plain stupid.

I don't accept the latter, his doctor had given him the all clear to return to work, that's enough to justify it, looking back with hindsight doesn't stop that being true at the point when we took him on.

I disagree unless Villa commissioned their own Doctors look at him. And by that I mean 2 for independent views. If they did then fair enough - I have never heard that.

We shouldn't do it with a player with a history of injuries. Although I suppose we did with Jenas but that is indicative of the amateurs we have become.

Jenas was the only player we've ever signed who'd had a few injuries?

No Dave - certainly not. Jenas had more than others I could recall. And based on that I don't think agreeing to pay £2m regardless of his season long contribution was an especially good deal.

[paul_e]

In your view we did the wrong thing extending Delph's contract then?  and shouldn't have signed Mcgrath or Laursen?

You have to trust the medical staff to follow their ethics and give an honest assessment, regardless of who they're employed by that's a legal requirement so commissioning their own doctors and getting independent views doesn't come into it, you have to trust, in that situation, that the doctor has done all the right checks.  I'm not saying doctors are infallible, everyone makes mistakes but you can't decide someone (who has chosen to apply for the job so 'semi-retirement with the french FA' doesn't come n to it) should be dismissed from the running on the basis of previous ill health.

As said hindsight is wonderful but if things had gone better that season and we'd been challenging for the top 4 before he went ill would it still have been a huge mistake?  To me the people who bring up his health are often allowing the fact that they didn't like him and we under-performed to sit alongside his subsequent health problems hen saying it was clearly a terrible error to employ him.  It wasn't and his appointment was nothing like as poor a decision as the 2 to which it has been compared above.

[Ads]

Lambert can win me back and I hope he does, it's just after QPR, I just cannot see it.

[dave.woodhall]

No Dave - certainly not. Jenas had more than others I could recall. And based on that I don't think agreeing to pay £2m regardless of his season long contribution was an especially good deal.

Hindsight is perfect. We've signed players with injury records before - some have worked and some haven't. That this one didn't doesn't show that the entire club is amateurish, any more than signing Paul McGrath was conclusive proof that late eighties Villa was the best-run club in football.

[rob_bridge]

In your view we did the wrong thing extending Delph's contract then?  and shouldn't have signed Mcgrath or Laursen?

You have to trust the medical staff to follow their ethics and give an honest assessment, regardless of who they're employed by that's a legal requirement so commissioning their own doctors and getting independent views doesn't come into it, you have to trust, in that situation, that the doctor has done all the right checks.  I'm not saying doctors are infallible, everyone makes mistakes but you can't decide someone (who has chosen to apply for the job so 'semi-retirement with the french FA' doesn't come n to it) should be dismissed from the running on the basis of previous ill health.

As said hindsight is wonderful but if things had gone better that season and we'd been challenging for the top 4 before he went ill would it still have been a huge mistake?  To me the people who bring up his health are often allowing the fact that they didn't like him and we under-performed to sit alongside his subsequent health problems hen saying it was clearly a terrible error to employ him.  It wasn't and his appointment was nothing like as poor a decision as the 2 to which it has been compared above.

Nope you are putting words in my mouth, proverbially speaking. Please desist.

I would have had a heart specialist check Houllier's current health. Things didn't go better - it was a poor decision. Villa is not an easy club to manage.

I would not have signed Jenas on a season long loan when we had to pay all of his wages regardless of how much he played based on his history of injuries.

I would have ripped anyone's hands off to sign McGrath when we did. No brainer.
Laursen knew little about prior to him joining. 
And Delph deserves a contract extension assuming we have the finances and suitbale insurance cover.

[rob_bridge]

No Dave - certainly not. Jenas had more than others I could recall. And based on that I don't think agreeing to pay £2m regardless of his season long contribution was an especially good deal.

Hindsight is perfect. We've signed players with injury records before - some have worked and some haven't. That this one didn't doesn't show that the entire club is amateurish, any more than signing Paul McGrath was conclusive proof that late eighties Villa was the best-run club in football.

I think most of the football based decisions (on and off field) in the last 4 years have not shown us look like a professional and competently run club.
I think, and it just my opinion, that has made us look like amateurs on too many occasions. I site the Jenas recruitment as one of them.

[dave.woodhall]

No Dave - certainly not. Jenas had more than others I could recall. And based on that I don't think agreeing to pay £2m regardless of his season long contribution was an especially good deal.

Hindsight is perfect. We've signed players with injury records before - some have worked and some haven't. That this one didn't doesn't show that the entire club is amateurish, any more than signing Paul McGrath was conclusive proof that late eighties Villa was the best-run club in football.

I think most of the football based decisions (on and off field) in the last 4 years have not shown us look like a professional and competently run club.
I think, and it just my opinion, that has made us look like amateurs on too many occasions. I site the Jenas recruitment as one of them.

As I said, hindsight. It's easy to say you'd have done something that worked and not done something that didn't

[rob_bridge]

No Dave - certainly not. Jenas had more than others I could recall. And based on that I don't think agreeing to pay £2m regardless of his season long contribution was an especially good deal.

Hindsight is perfect. We've signed players with injury records before - some have worked and some haven't. That this one didn't doesn't show that the entire club is amateurish, any more than signing Paul McGrath was conclusive proof that late eighties Villa was the best-run club in football.

I think most of the football based decisions (on and off field) in the last 4 years have not shown us look like a professional and competently run club.
I think, and it just my opinion, that has made us look like amateurs on too many occasions. I site the Jenas recruitment as one of them.

As I said, hindsight. It's easy to say you'd have done something that worked and not done something that didn't

There were a fair few of the big decisons being made at the time (2010-2012)that a good number of posters on here thought were unwise.

[dave.woodhall]

As I said, hindsight. It's easy to say you'd have done something that worked and not done something that didn't

There were a fair few of the big decisons being made at the time (2010-2012)that a good number of posters on here thought were unwise.

[/quote]

A lot of them seemed downright bloody stupid then, and look even stupider now. But, the ones you've mentioned are only wrong with hindsight.

[rob_bridge]

As I said, hindsight. It's easy to say you'd have done something that worked and not done something that didn't

There were a fair few of the big decisons being made at the time (2010-2012)that a good number of posters on here thought were unwise.

A lot of them seemed downright bloody stupid then, and look even stupider now. But, the ones you've mentioned are only wrong with hindsight.
[/quote]

I thought they were bad decisions at the time they were made.

[mr underhill]

didn't we buy Downing when he could only hop around on one leg and couldn't play for ages? That looked like an amateurish bag of shite type move at first, but in the end, proved to be quite a shrewd investment- for Randy at least.

[brian green]

For me the assessment of the physical risks in signing a player or a manager pale into insignificance compared with the monumental risks that are taken with the mental state of players considered for employment. Injuries to players bodies can either be overcome (McGrath, Laursen, Delaney) or not (Nilis, Jenas, Stas). Personality disorders of one sort or another can rarely if ever be corrected (Collymore, Curcic, I*****d).
I personally would much sooner take a chance with a player with a dodgy knee than a wife beater.