The Paul Lambert thread - poll reset after our capitulation to Hull

[Stu]

Under Gérard Houllier they were ninth but he was not good enough either.

Gerard Houllier was an ill man with a heart condition. That's why he left.

Lovejoy is being a bit disingenuous there. There were quite a few Villa fans that weren't happy about him being in charge - but that only really kicked off after his bizarre behaviour at Anfield. Things got better towards the end of the season.

[mr underhill]

it's just that sort of bollocks that's keeping him in a job. By and large Mumbles gets a very good press and it obviously influences the boardroom Tweedles. Enough is enough.

[Damo70]

it's just that sort of bollocks that's keeping him in a job. By and large Mumbles gets a very good press and it obviously influences the boardroom Tweedles. Enough is enough.

The press line seems to be that we expect too much and he hasn't had any money to spend. I'm pretty sure he had had more money than Pardew, especially considering the money from selling players Pardew has brought in. Yet Newcastle are safe from relegation but it is fine for their fans to turn on the manager.

[mr underhill]

I'm sure you are right although it does seem to me that the two groups of fans whom the media generally always seem to think have totally unrealistic expectations are us and the Jawdies. In their case, its obviously true as they have never won anything of note. When your CV includes the European Cup etc. you tend to harbour loftier ideals and rightly so, no matter how distant those achievements were.

[aj2k77]

Here's some sympathy for our beleagured manager from the gRauniad:

Aston Villa exemplify the unrealistic expectations of most clubs and their supporters in the modern era. With precious few exceptions, they are never happy. Under Martin O'Neill, Villa finished sixth in the Premier League three seasons running, yet the fans wanted him out. The cliched talk was of "underachieving".Under Gérard Houllier they were ninth but he was not good enough either. Now they stand a perilous 16th with three matches to play and it is Paul Lambert's turn to be raucously informed that he has to go. Patience? That's a card game isn't it? Lambert proved his worth at Norwich, winning successive promotions before finishing 12th in the Premier League – and would not East Anglia's finest settle for that now.
Yes, Lambert is having a chastening time at Villa, who have taken only one point from their last six matches, but they were 10th as recently as last month after beating Chelsea 1-0 and there are mitigating circumstances for their plight. They were again without their main strikers, Christian Benteke and Libor Kozak, at Swansea on Saturday yet played well for all but the last 20 minutes, before conceding twice and subsiding to a 4-1 defeat.
The absence of Benteke, their leading scorer with 10 goals in 26 League appearances, was highly significant. The Belgian international is their talisman; without him they do not win. Benteke was signed by Lambert in the summer of 2012 and has repaid his comparatively modest £7m transfer fee with 29 goals in 60 League appearances. Kozak cost the same last September and looks promising with four goals from his first eight starts, plus six as substitute. Lambert's critics should remember that £7m is the most he has been able to pay for any player in nearly two years in charge.
Last summer he spent £17m, which does not buy you much these days – certainly not the European place the supporters covet. Norwich forked out twice as much and look at them. At the Liberty Stadium, against a Swansea team also fighting for, and gaining, Premier League security, Villa got away to a discouraging start when Jonjo Shelvey took their central defenders out of the game with a through-pass that enabled the increasingly prolific Wilfried Bony to run on and score from the edge of the penalty area.
To their credit, Villa fought back well, matching the Welsh team's renowned passing and utilising the width provided by two wingers. They deserved their equaliser midway through the first half when Marc Albrighton's cross from the right set up Gabriel Agbonlahor for a close-range sidefooter. Lambert felt the "turning point" was the stunning goal from the centre circle with which Shelvey punished Brad Guzan for dithering in possession, abrogating the responsibility for clearing to Ron Vlaar and then getting back on his line too slowly. The Villa manager said: "He [Shelvey] could try that 50 times and he'd do it once, and the wonder goal had to be against us."
Again Villa responded well and it was anybody's game until the 73rd minute when Shelvey's right-wing cross picked out Pablo Hernández beyond the far post. The Spaniard stepped inside two defenders before shooting across Guzan and into the far corner. Villa were spent now and in added time Bony scored from the penalty spot – his sixth goal in the last seven League games – after Nathan Baker had flattened Marvin Emnes.
Of the abuse he received from the fans, Lambert said: "Criticism is not nice but I've had it as a player and as manager. I'll take it. I've never shied away from it. I'm the manager and it's my job to protect the players. They are the ones who play the game.
"I totally understand the supporters' feelings. This is a huge football club and expectation levels are so high because of what has been achieved in the past. The club should never be in this position, that's the bottom line. I'll take the criticism, but if there was ever a game where the supporters need to get behind the team it's next Saturday."
He accepted that the threat of relegation was real but added: "We'd be more worried if our fate wasn't in our own hands. We've got three games left, others have got two. One win will do to keep us up and next week's game [at home to Hull] is now a cup final."

Bullshit article. Who's expectations are to qualify for Europe? I just expect us not to be beaten over 20 times a season and be able to string a few passes together in most games and god forbid score a few goals. I also expect a journalist to do a bit of research if they are going to write up about my club.

[dave.woodhall]

Here's some sympathy for our beleagured manager from the gRauniad:

Aston Villa exemplify the unrealistic expectations of most clubs and their supporters in the modern era. With precious few exceptions, they are never happy. Under Martin O'Neill, Villa finished sixth in the Premier League three seasons running, yet the fans wanted him out. The cliched talk was of "underachieving".Under Gérard Houllier they were ninth but he was not good enough either. Now they stand a perilous 16th with three matches to play and it is Paul Lambert's turn to be raucously informed that he has to go. Patience? That's a card game isn't it? Lambert proved his worth at Norwich, winning successive promotions before finishing 12th in the Premier League – and would not East Anglia's finest settle for that now.
Yes, Lambert is having a chastening time at Villa, who have taken only one point from their last six matches, but they were 10th as recently as last month after beating Chelsea 1-0 and there are mitigating circumstances for their plight. They were again without their main strikers, Christian Benteke and Libor Kozak, at Swansea on Saturday yet played well for all but the last 20 minutes, before conceding twice and subsiding to a 4-1 defeat.
The absence of Benteke, their leading scorer with 10 goals in 26 League appearances, was highly significant. The Belgian international is their talisman; without him they do not win. Benteke was signed by Lambert in the summer of 2012 and has repaid his comparatively modest £7m transfer fee with 29 goals in 60 League appearances. Kozak cost the same last September and looks promising with four goals from his first eight starts, plus six as substitute. Lambert's critics should remember that £7m is the most he has been able to pay for any player in nearly two years in charge.
Last summer he spent £17m, which does not buy you much these days – certainly not the European place the supporters covet. Norwich forked out twice as much and look at them. At the Liberty Stadium, against a Swansea team also fighting for, and gaining, Premier League security, Villa got away to a discouraging start when Jonjo Shelvey took their central defenders out of the game with a through-pass that enabled the increasingly prolific Wilfried Bony to run on and score from the edge of the penalty area.
To their credit, Villa fought back well, matching the Welsh team's renowned passing and utilising the width provided by two wingers. They deserved their equaliser midway through the first half when Marc Albrighton's cross from the right set up Gabriel Agbonlahor for a close-range sidefooter. Lambert felt the "turning point" was the stunning goal from the centre circle with which Shelvey punished Brad Guzan for dithering in possession, abrogating the responsibility for clearing to Ron Vlaar and then getting back on his line too slowly. The Villa manager said: "He [Shelvey] could try that 50 times and he'd do it once, and the wonder goal had to be against us."
Again Villa responded well and it was anybody's game until the 73rd minute when Shelvey's right-wing cross picked out Pablo Hernández beyond the far post. The Spaniard stepped inside two defenders before shooting across Guzan and into the far corner. Villa were spent now and in added time Bony scored from the penalty spot – his sixth goal in the last seven League games – after Nathan Baker had flattened Marvin Emnes.
Of the abuse he received from the fans, Lambert said: "Criticism is not nice but I've had it as a player and as manager. I'll take it. I've never shied away from it. I'm the manager and it's my job to protect the players. They are the ones who play the game.
"I totally understand the supporters' feelings. This is a huge football club and expectation levels are so high because of what has been achieved in the past. The club should never be in this position, that's the bottom line. I'll take the criticism, but if there was ever a game where the supporters need to get behind the team it's next Saturday."
He accepted that the threat of relegation was real but added: "We'd be more worried if our fate wasn't in our own hands. We've got three games left, others have got two. One win will do to keep us up and next week's game [at home to Hull] is now a cup final."

Really?

[PaulWinch again]

That article is utter bollocks, I'd say the majority of fans have been pretty patient. Repeated relegation battles in a row, 1 point from 6 games, getting hammered by Swansea, losing to Fulham, drawing with Cardiff. I'm sorry but any other set of fans wouldn't tolerate that. It's so easy to write an article like that, and it's just clueless. Also incidently we did finish 9th under Houllier, but we were on the edge of relegation with a couple of games to go.

[Gregorys Boy]

Here's some sympathy for our beleagured manager from the gRauniad:

Aston Villa exemplify the unrealistic expectations of most clubs and their supporters in the modern era. With precious few exceptions, they are never happy. Under Martin O'Neill, Villa finished sixth in the Premier League three seasons running, yet the fans wanted him out. The cliched talk was of "underachieving".Under Gérard Houllier they were ninth but he was not good enough either. Now they stand a perilous 16th with three matches to play and it is Paul Lambert's turn to be raucously informed that he has to go. Patience? That's a card game isn't it? Lambert proved his worth at Norwich, winning successive promotions before finishing 12th in the Premier League – and would not East Anglia's finest settle for that now.
Yes, Lambert is having a chastening time at Villa, who have taken only one point from their last six matches, but they were 10th as recently as last month after beating Chelsea 1-0 and there are mitigating circumstances for their plight. They were again without their main strikers, Christian Benteke and Libor Kozak, at Swansea on Saturday yet played well for all but the last 20 minutes, before conceding twice and subsiding to a 4-1 defeat.
The absence of Benteke, their leading scorer with 10 goals in 26 League appearances, was highly significant. The Belgian international is their talisman; without him they do not win. Benteke was signed by Lambert in the summer of 2012 and has repaid his comparatively modest £7m transfer fee with 29 goals in 60 League appearances. Kozak cost the same last September and looks promising with four goals from his first eight starts, plus six as substitute. Lambert's critics should remember that £7m is the most he has been able to pay for any player in nearly two years in charge.
Last summer he spent £17m, which does not buy you much these days – certainly not the European place the supporters covet. Norwich forked out twice as much and look at them. At the Liberty Stadium, against a Swansea team also fighting for, and gaining, Premier League security, Villa got away to a discouraging start when Jonjo Shelvey took their central defenders out of the game with a through-pass that enabled the increasingly prolific Wilfried Bony to run on and score from the edge of the penalty area.
To their credit, Villa fought back well, matching the Welsh team's renowned passing and utilising the width provided by two wingers. They deserved their equaliser midway through the first half when Marc Albrighton's cross from the right set up Gabriel Agbonlahor for a close-range sidefooter. Lambert felt the "turning point" was the stunning goal from the centre circle with which Shelvey punished Brad Guzan for dithering in possession, abrogating the responsibility for clearing to Ron Vlaar and then getting back on his line too slowly. The Villa manager said: "He [Shelvey] could try that 50 times and he'd do it once, and the wonder goal had to be against us."
Again Villa responded well and it was anybody's game until the 73rd minute when Shelvey's right-wing cross picked out Pablo Hernández beyond the far post. The Spaniard stepped inside two defenders before shooting across Guzan and into the far corner. Villa were spent now and in added time Bony scored from the penalty spot – his sixth goal in the last seven League games – after Nathan Baker had flattened Marvin Emnes.
Of the abuse he received from the fans, Lambert said: "Criticism is not nice but I've had it as a player and as manager. I'll take it. I've never shied away from it. I'm the manager and it's my job to protect the players. They are the ones who play the game.
"I totally understand the supporters' feelings. This is a huge football club and expectation levels are so high because of what has been achieved in the past. The club should never be in this position, that's the bottom line. I'll take the criticism, but if there was ever a game where the supporters need to get behind the team it's next Saturday."
He accepted that the threat of relegation was real but added: "We'd be more worried if our fate wasn't in our own hands. We've got three games left, others have got two. One win will do to keep us up and next week's game [at home to Hull] is now a cup final."

Most of that is bollocks and lazy bollocks at that.

Hardly any fans were calling for MON to be sacked as far as I can remember, some may have felt that he had taken us as far as he could, but  I don't recall much negativity aimed at him until his departure.

I think most fans were pretty fair to both Houllier and McGlish, and it is only recently they have started to turn on Lambert in any great numbers.

I agree with him about the job Lambert did at Norwich, and that maybe he deserves a bit more time at Villa, but his point about being 12th not too long ago is misguided.  The season lasts nine months, not seven, and in such a tight season as this there was always going to be a bit more work to do.  If we finish about 12th I would take that, but that clearly is not going to happen now, instead it looks like we will finish roughly where we did last time and that isn't progress.

[aj2k77]

That article is utter bollocks, I'd say the majority of fans have been pretty patient. Repeated relegation battles in a row, 1 point from 6 games, getting hammered by Swansea, losing to Fulham, drawing with Cardiff. I'm sorry but any other set of fans wouldn't tolerate that. It's so easy to write an article like that, and it's just clueless. Also incidently we did finish 9th under Houllier, but we were on the edge of relegation with a couple of games to go.

I had Villa at 22/1 at Christmas time to finish in the top half of the table.

[PaulWinch again]

That article is utter bollocks, I'd say the majority of fans have been pretty patient. Repeated relegation battles in a row, 1 point from 6 games, getting hammered by Swansea, losing to Fulham, drawing with Cardiff. I'm sorry but any other set of fans wouldn't tolerate that. It's so easy to write an article like that, and it's just clueless. Also incidently we did finish 9th under Houllier, but we were on the edge of relegation with a couple of games to go.

I had Villa at 22/1 at Christmas time to finish in the top half of the table.

I hope you meant in Houllier's season rather than this one.

[Gregorys Boy]

I'm sure you are right although it does seem to me that the two groups of fans whom the media generally always seem to think have totally unrealistic expectations are us and the Jawdies. In their case, its obviously true as they have never won anything of note. When your CV includes the European Cup etc. you tend to harbour loftier ideals and rightly so, no matter how distant those achievements were.

I think the way Football has changed now though it is more and more unrealistic for most clubs to hope for that sort of success. I mean it we struggled for it under O'Neill and now it seems worlds away.  Its a mute point because I think most just expect us to challenge for the odd cup, and to progress into the top half of the table.  You have to take the ups and downs as Football fans (unless you live in a dream world like Man Utd fans) and I think Villa fans for the most part are pretty level headed.

[aj2k77]

That article is utter bollocks, I'd say the majority of fans have been pretty patient. Repeated relegation battles in a row, 1 point from 6 games, getting hammered by Swansea, losing to Fulham, drawing with Cardiff. I'm sorry but any other set of fans wouldn't tolerate that. It's so easy to write an article like that, and it's just clueless. Also incidently we did finish 9th under Houllier, but we were on the edge of relegation with a couple of games to go.

I had Villa at 22/1 at Christmas time to finish in the top half of the table.

I hope you meant in Houllier's season rather than this one.

Yeah lol, I think we were 14th going into the last game and the results played out perfectly that day, Blues going down was a bonus.

[Mister E]

An article that is indeed disingenuous - reminds me of the press coverage that followed the TSM / Bolton game; equally, bollox.

[aj2k77]

I'm sure you are right although it does seem to me that the two groups of fans whom the media generally always seem to think have totally unrealistic expectations are us and the Jawdies. In their case, its obviously true as they have never won anything of note. When your CV includes the European Cup etc. you tend to harbour loftier ideals and rightly so, no matter how distant those achievements were.

I think the way Football has changed now though it is more and more unrealistic for most clubs to hope for that sort of success. I mean it we struggled for it under O'Neill and now it seems worlds away.  Its a mute point because I think most just expect us to challenge for the odd cup, and to progress into the top half of the table.  You have to take the ups and downs as Football fans (unless you live in a dream world like Man Utd fans) and I think Villa fans for the most part are pretty level headed.

That's the thing isn't it, I no longer have any expectation to win anything or challenge the top 4. That has been drained out of me the last 4 years and with the amounts of money pouring into other clubs. All I and I would reckon most fans of our club want is a little bit of excitement, a little bit of hope, some positivity and some leadership. Seeing things improve, better decisions made for our benefit and seeing a team and fans with a bit of affinity for each other.

Right now it feels like everyone involved at the club hasn't a clue what to do and the majority couldn't care less. Matchday is dreaded now and I hate transfer windows because I know that we will sign some joke of a player I've never heard of from a lower league club as a punt and have the club PR spin some bollocks about how he's the Eastern European Zico or something.

The shitter we become the more and more talk there is of this plan we've been following. Would someone please come out and enlighten the paying customers of this brand exactly what this project was and where we are at. If this was any other business than football and it's blind loyalty then most of the customers would have pissed off by now, fed up of buying shoddy product.

''sorry sir that your new trainers fell apart, please understand the sweatshop they were made in is full of young and hungry workers trying their hardest but it's under considerable stress right now, rest assured we have a plan but we are not willing to tell you what it is, just keep buying our tat''

[Jimbo]

In other words, the article is saying "know your place, Villa fans," something very few in the media would ever dare say to Liverpool or Man Utd fans.