The Paul Lambert thread - poll reset after our capitulation to Hull

[Monty]

Without wishing to take away from the points we've earned from our matches against the better sides, it does seem to me a risky strategy indeed to rely on these games for the points which keep us out of relegation trouble, given that beating these sides necessarily involves more luck than beating any others as they are quite a lot better than us.

And given that the vast majority of clubs aren't actually top sides at all. Those are the sides we need to start beating. Or at least drawing against more often, rather than losing to them.

Our tactics are bold, but they're the boldness of the small. They're plucky more than authoritative. This small-mindedness of mentality combines with our frantic lack of patience and structure to result in a pretty good counterattacking team with enough pluck to upset the odd table-topper. That strategy is, however, risky, and entirely unlikely to grow into anything more firm or structured.

[pauliewalnuts]

Without wishing to take away from the points we've earned from our matches against the better sides, it does seem to me a risky strategy indeed to rely on these games for the points which keep us out of relegation trouble, given that beating these sides necessarily involves more luck than beating any others as they are quite a lot better than us.

And given that the vast majority of clubs aren't actually top sides at all. Those are the sides we need to start beating. Or at least drawing against more often, rather than losing to them.

Our tactics are bold, but they're the boldness of the small. They're plucky more than authoritative. This small-mindedness of mentality combines with our frantic lack of patience and structure to result in a pretty good counterattacking team with enough pluck to upset the odd table-topper. That strategy is, however, risky, and entirely unlikely to grow into anything more firm or structured.

I'd agree with that entirely.

It just looks so random and unstructured. Last season, you could see what he was trying to do, even when we were failing to do it. This season has been like an almost season-long equivalent of the second leg second half against Bradford last year - desperation, not knowing what to do.

When Lambert says "we're a million miles away from where we want to be at the moment", I believe him. I don't think he's happy with it, either.

The problem is, I don't see anything these days to suggest he knows how to get us there.

Part of it is the players he's bought, part of it is the frequency with which we actually manage to look like less than the sum of the parts as a team, and that's surely his doing.

Where, for example, is the pressing for the ball that we showed a lot last year, and which we showed against teams like Arsenal and Man City (second half) this year? last year we would fight for the ball, and when we had it, we'd try to do something with it.

God knows how many times this season we've performed poorly in matches, then for the first time started to press and harry, won the ball back, and created opportunities. Only to then not bother doing much of it again till the end of the match. Mystifying.

[Monty]

We're a little bit like United States foreign policy - we only ever do the good thing by accident.

[curiousorange]

Without wishing to take away from the points we've earned from our matches against the better sides, it does seem to me a risky strategy indeed to rely on these games for the points which keep us out of relegation trouble, given that beating these sides necessarily involves more luck than beating any others as they are quite a lot better than us.

And given that the vast majority of clubs aren't actually top sides at all. Those are the sides we need to start beating. Or at least drawing against more often, rather than losing to them.

Our tactics are bold, but they're the boldness of the small. They're plucky more than authoritative. This small-mindedness of mentality combines with our frantic lack of patience and structure to result in a pretty good counterattacking team with enough pluck to upset the odd table-topper. That strategy is, however, risky, and entirely unlikely to grow into anything more firm or structured.

I'd agree with that entirely.

It just looks so random and unstructured. Last season, you could see what he was trying to do, even when we were failing to do it. This season has been like an almost season-long equivalent of the second leg second half against Bradford last year - desperation, not knowing what to do.

When Lambert says "we're a million miles away from where we want to be at the moment", I believe him. I don't think he's happy with it, either.

The problem is, I don't see anything these days to suggest he knows how to get us there.

Part of it is the players he's bought, part of it is the frequency with which we actually manage to look like less than the sum of the parts as a team, and that's surely his doing.

Where, for example, is the pressing for the ball that we showed a lot last year, and which we showed against teams like Arsenal and Man City (second half) this year? last year we would fight for the ball, and when we had it, we'd try to do something with it.

God knows how many times this season we've performed poorly in matches, then for the first time started to press and harry, won the ball back, and created opportunities. Only to then not bother doing much of it again till the end of the match. Mystifying.

It's almost as if being robbed of something against Chelsea affected the rest of the season. We got in their faces, looked the better team but came away with nothing, and it's like the players and manager thought, "well, that didn't work, let's not try it again".

[Mister E]

... a team so dire in possession for two years are suddenly going to undergo a Damascus-like conversion and shoot up the table, playing stylish, swashbuckling football on the way.

And

It's almost as if being robbed of something against Chelsea affected the rest of the season. We got in their faces, looked the better team but came away with nothing, and it's like the players and manager thought, "well, that didn't work, let's not try it again".

It's the inconsistency that kills me: yesterday, we had good possession; we looked pretty reasonable on the ball. but, like the games at home against WHU and Stoke, we got suckered on the break and from individual basic errors.
Lambert has failed to erase the basic frailities in the team and to build a core of squad confidence - hence the flakiness.

At the moment, I can see Fulham turning us over next Saturday ... a frightening thought.

[rob_bridge]

Every manager has to deal with injuries, so that excuse doesn't work for me.

Besides, Kozak was back up for Benteke. And let's be honest, is he really a huge loss?Admittedly, I have high hopes for Okore but we don't know if he would've improved us significantly.
N'Zogbia was put in the bomb squad, Lambert was never gonna use him.

Any other injuries I've missed?

Yes as we had to get an inadequate replacement who unlike The Big K has yet to score any important goals for us

[passitsideways]

The moment we attempt to play proactive, possession football, such as on Saturday and also in the second half of last season (where we did do a good job beating the not-so-good teams: QPR, Reading, Sunderland, Norwich, Stoke; and we did go toe-to-toe against Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal before ultimately losing all three but only because their individual quality shone through in the end) stupid defensive blunders creep into our game (not like they were totally error-free when that wasn't the case though, of course.)

So I don't think it's a case that Lambert has absolutely no idea how to play passing football, per se. He just can't really reconcile it with defensive stability. I think better players at either end of the pitch would help him somewhat: getting a proper winger who can create gaps by running at players, rather than Gabby and Andi who feed off Benteke knock-ons but don't offer anything with the ball at feet makes our unthreatening three-man midfield more palatable. Having Okore live up to what we hope he would be, and having either Bacuna stop being so erratic with his positioning (Kagawa and Januzaj, both hardly rapid, got behind him a few thousand times on Saturday), or Lowton fix whatever problems he's having would do the same. The rest is up for Lambert to solve.

[Gareth]

I wonder if any manager has had 4 transfer windows & made Jack all progress & rather than bomb him our club looks to give him a new deal....

Any other club did that would find it hilarious....grrrrrr

Everything about our club says average - players / manager / board / tactics

[Toronto Villa]

well thought out post there Gareth. I think that sums things up quite nicely.

[ROBBO]

Our players just don't have the quality needed, Delph apart and maybe Benteke and Vlaar at their best we are a championship standard side. Yes we can have the occassional victory over a top side but it is more reminiscent of a plucky lower league side giving it to one of the big boys than a premiership side on the up.
Giving Gabby a four year contract says it all for me, rewarding a player for long service and the odd good game smells of mediocrity, how many good games has he had this season?
Albrighton is another one who we are too quick to big up when he manages to look a little bit better than his mates, he is a very limited winger but i make allowences for him on Saturday whoever had the idea he could play a central role behind the strikers should be sacked.
As supporters we on most occassions are at the outer limit of fair mindedness even when we get angry
its like slapping someone with a wet lettuce. Oh well we go again.

[tomd2103]

Without wishing to take away from the points we've earned from our matches against the better sides, it does seem to me a risky strategy indeed to rely on these games for the points which keep us out of relegation trouble, given that beating these sides necessarily involves more luck than beating any others as they are quite a lot better than us.

And given that the vast majority of clubs aren't actually top sides at all. Those are the sides we need to start beating. Or at least drawing against more often, rather than losing to them.

Our tactics are bold, but they're the boldness of the small. They're plucky more than authoritative. This small-mindedness of mentality combines with our frantic lack of patience and structure to result in a pretty good counterattacking team with enough pluck to upset the odd table-topper. That strategy is, however, risky, and entirely unlikely to grow into anything more firm or structured.

I'd agree with that entirely.

It just looks so random and unstructured. Last season, you could see what he was trying to do, even when we were failing to do it. This season has been like an almost season-long equivalent of the second leg second half against Bradford last year - desperation, not knowing what to do.

When Lambert says "we're a million miles away from where we want to be at the moment", I believe him. I don't think he's happy with it, either.

The problem is, I don't see anything these days to suggest he knows how to get us there.

Part of it is the players he's bought, part of it is the frequency with which we actually manage to look like less than the sum of the parts as a team, and that's surely his doing.

Where, for example, is the pressing for the ball that we showed a lot last year, and which we showed against teams like Arsenal and Man City (second half) this year? last year we would fight for the ball, and when we had it, we'd try to do something with it.

God knows how many times this season we've performed poorly in matches, then for the first time started to press and harry, won the ball back, and created opportunities. Only to then not bother doing much of it again till the end of the match. Mystifying.

I'd agree with that.  Take Poyet at Sunderland for an example - yes they are struggling, but since he has come in he seems to have implemented a clear way of playing and has stuck to it.  When you watch them, they do try to pass the ball and although results haven't been great, they by and large have played that way.  Same with Martinez with Wigan and it is now interesting to see how well he is doing with a better group of players. 

I just get the impression with us that, although there might be a plan there (when we play through Westwood we are capable of playing some good football), there is also a "go to" option of smashing the ball up in the general area of Benteke and we revert to that far too much.  I just wish they would have the courage of their convictions to play a passing game through Westwood and stick with it because I think it would pay dividends in the long term.  One of the major things holding us back from playing that way though is not having a creative player who can keep possession and make things happen in the final third.  Initially good passing moves break down when they reach the feet of Weimann, Benteke or Gabby in the final third far too often and the fact that Lambert hasn't addressed that issue is one of his biggest failings in my opinion.     

[Toronto Villa]

I'm sorry, but I don't get this Poyet love in. I understand what people are saying about style of play but it also needs to yield results. Their fans aren't going to give a shit about aesthetics if they are opening next season at Blackpool.

[Monty]

I'm sorry, but I don't get this Poyet love in. I understand what people are saying about style of play but it also needs to yield results. Their fans aren't going to give a shit about aesthetics if they are opening next season at Blackpool.

When he came in they were absolutely nowhere, now they have a chance and have been to a Cup final. It's wrong to say that their results haven't improved thanks to the style of play and the manager implementing it.

[PeterWithesShin]

Sunderland have 21 points from 19 games under Poyet. So 42 over a full season. Enough to keep them up. 4 points from 10 games under the Nazi is what will relegate them if they drop.

[Isa]

It's even better than that. They had one point when Poyet took over. They now have twenty-five.