The Paul Lambert thread - poll reset after our capitulation to Hull

[Toronto Villa]

Lowton when his head was in it certainly was.

[achilles]

As much as after two 4-1 pannings it is very hard to defend him, the players need to good, hard look at themselves also. We had chances to win the last two games, leading 1-0 looking good. It's not as if the manager did something definitive to change the game against us. He wasn't able to correct the situation that's on him also, but the players have let all of us down.

Lambert signed most of those players so he should be able to motivate them!

[rob_bridge]

As much as after two 4-1 pannings it is very hard to defend him, the players need to good, hard look at themselves also. We had chances to win the last two games, leading 1-0 looking good. It's not as if the manager did something definitive to change the game against us. He wasn't able to correct the situation that's on him also, but the players have let all of us down.

A lot of those players are out of their depth though and really shouldn't be playing in the PL. Whose fault is that though, Lambert for signing them or Lerner for tightening the purse strings?

Rationally though, how many of the starting 11 aren't PL standard? Ignoring if they were shit today and heat of the moment reaction. Lower level PL maybe with a few, but still PL players.

IMO whether they are good enough to be regulars in the PL. That's not me saying i'm happy with the overall quality of the 11 either.
Guzan Yes
Bacuna Almost certainly
Bertrand Yes
Vlaar Yes
Clark Probably
Delph Yes
Westwood Yes
Albrighton Probably
Benteke Yes
Gabby Yes
Weimann Probably

You are being very generous.

I count 4 based on last 12 months / future + maybe Okore.

The others are squad players (at best)

That means we are short of half a dozen 1st teamers

[Toronto Villa]

As much as after two 4-1 pannings it is very hard to defend him, the players need to good, hard look at themselves also. We had chances to win the last two games, leading 1-0 looking good. It's not as if the manager did something definitive to change the game against us. He wasn't able to correct the situation that's on him also, but the players have let all of us down.

Lambert signed most of those players so he should be able to motivate them!

Motivation is only a part of the equation. There's also a question of accountability and performing the duties asked of you. Making basic mental errors as we have started to do again in defence can only be coached out of you to a point. The players need to know they are just as much a part of this. At 2-2 the entire situation is different. A top centre forward cannot miss those chances because it changes the entire dynamic of the game. Instead we miss that, come close again and then they score. It's massively frustrating.

[pauliewalnuts]

I actually don't think this match today tells us much that we didn't already know. It's not the end of the world, and it's not even remotely surprising that we lost there.

The matches that tell you something are the ones you'd expect us to compete in, against other poor sides, where we have consistently been poor. I'm talking about Fulham, Stoke, Palace, West Ham, those sort of games.

If we wind up finishing more or less where we did last year, it won't be because we got beaten at Old Trafford, it'll be because, over a prolonged period of time, we just weren't good enough, particularly in games you'd expect us to do OK in.

[pauliewalnuts]

As much as after two 4-1 pannings it is very hard to defend him, the players need to good, hard look at themselves also. We had chances to win the last two games, leading 1-0 looking good. It's not as if the manager did something definitive to change the game against us. He wasn't able to correct the situation that's on him also, but the players have let all of us down.

A lot of those players are out of their depth though and really shouldn't be playing in the PL. Whose fault is that though, Lambert for signing them or Lerner for tightening the purse strings?

Rationally though, how many of the starting 11 aren't PL standard? Ignoring if they were shit today and heat of the moment reaction. Lower level PL maybe with a few, but still PL players.

IMO whether they are good enough to be regulars in the PL. That's not me saying i'm happy with the overall quality of the 11 either.
Guzan Yes
Bacuna Almost certainly
Bertrand Yes
Vlaar Yes
Clark Probably
Delph Yes
Westwood Yes
Albrighton Probably
Benteke Yes
Gabby Yes
Weimann Probably

The problem we have isn't so much about whether players are good enough to play in the PL or not. It is more about what happens when we stick together 11 players on the pitch, 6 or 7 of whom are "good enough" just about, but no more.

[Stu]

Overall, we're not very good. Isolated decent performances amongst loads of rubbish showings is the mark of a crappy side. That's what we are.

Caning Lambert for this defeat is a bit disingenuous, although our defence is still rubbish. We have underperformed against man u under pretty much every manager since Sir Brian Little.

[PeterWithesShin]

As much as after two 4-1 pannings it is very hard to defend him, the players need to good, hard look at themselves also. We had chances to win the last two games, leading 1-0 looking good. It's not as if the manager did something definitive to change the game against us. He wasn't able to correct the situation that's on him also, but the players have let all of us down.

A lot of those players are out of their depth though and really shouldn't be playing in the PL. Whose fault is that though, Lambert for signing them or Lerner for tightening the purse strings?

Rationally though, how many of the starting 11 aren't PL standard? Ignoring if they were shit today and heat of the moment reaction. Lower level PL maybe with a few, but still PL players.

IMO whether they are good enough to be regulars in the PL. That's not me saying i'm happy with the overall quality of the 11 either.
Guzan Yes
Bacuna Almost certainly
Bertrand Yes
Vlaar Yes
Clark Probably
Delph Yes
Westwood Yes
Albrighton Probably
Benteke Yes
Gabby Yes
Weimann Probably

The problem we have isn't so much about whether players are good enough to play in the PL or not. It is more about what happens when we stick together 11 players on the pitch, 6 or 7 of whom are "good enough" just about, but no more.

Is what I was trying to say. They are PL quality, but as an 11 it's not strong enough.

[pauliewalnuts]

As much as after two 4-1 pannings it is very hard to defend him, the players need to good, hard look at themselves also. We had chances to win the last two games, leading 1-0 looking good. It's not as if the manager did something definitive to change the game against us. He wasn't able to correct the situation that's on him also, but the players have let all of us down.

A lot of those players are out of their depth though and really shouldn't be playing in the PL. Whose fault is that though, Lambert for signing them or Lerner for tightening the purse strings?

Rationally though, how many of the starting 11 aren't PL standard? Ignoring if they were shit today and heat of the moment reaction. Lower level PL maybe with a few, but still PL players.

IMO whether they are good enough to be regulars in the PL. That's not me saying i'm happy with the overall quality of the 11 either.
Guzan Yes
Bacuna Almost certainly
Bertrand Yes
Vlaar Yes
Clark Probably
Delph Yes
Westwood Yes
Albrighton Probably
Benteke Yes
Gabby Yes
Weimann Probably

The problem we have isn't so much about whether players are good enough to play in the PL or not. It is more about what happens when we stick together 11 players on the pitch, 6 or 7 of whom are "good enough" just about, but no more.

Is what I was trying to say. They are PL quality, but as an 11 it's not strong enough.

This summer, we need to go out and buy one or two players who are better than those we already have.

Which is exactly what we should have done - but didn't - last summer.

[Toronto Villa]

With the exception of a few they can all play, but only some of them are legit starters, and a number of them should not be surprised or upset if they are replaced by better, more consistent players. I said this the pther day, that for us, when it goes tits up it goes tits up, and quickly. We need players on the pitch that can address conceding a goal by keeping things together. We don't have that now, and it costs money to get those types of player.

[achilles]

As much as after two 4-1 pannings it is very hard to defend him, the players need to good, hard look at themselves also. We had chances to win the last two games, leading 1-0 looking good. It's not as if the manager did something definitive to change the game against us. He wasn't able to correct the situation that's on him also, but the players have let all of us down.

Lambert signed most of those players so he should be able to motivate them!

Motivation is only a part of the equation. There's also a question of accountability and performing the duties asked of you. Making basic mental errors as we have started to do again in defence can only be coached out of you to a point. The players need to know they are just as much a part of this. At 2-2 the entire situation is different. A top centre forward cannot miss those chances because it changes the entire dynamic of the game. Instead we miss that, come close again and then they score. It's massively frustrating.

Thats one bit I definitely can't disagree with you about!

[danno]

The crux of the matter is do we trust Paul Lambert to spend the money on three players
at £6-7 million each who will improve us?

With question marks over almost all his signings except Benteke, I'm really not sure.

Vlaar is good but picks up injuries, and Okore and Kozak we haven't really seen enough of.

El Ahmadi, Westwood, Lowton, Bacuna, Tonev, Sylla, Luna, Bennett, Helenius.

I'd bet there are supporters who have their doubts over most of them.

[aj2k77]

I think the club as a whole needs someone to come in and give them one big kick up the arse, from top to bottom there's not pressure, everyone appears to be on easy street.

Defeats are just shrugged off in the same manner goals are. How many times have you seen fired up Villa players having a go and telling each other to pull their fucking socks up? Virtually none, because most of them know they are on a good thing and the only way is down after us. We need some personalities and winners.

The times we do see them under real pressure ie last seasons relegation battle we actually turned in the best stuff we've played for 3-4 years. Once the pressure is off again, we fall back, get lacksidasical and sloppy and lazy. They need a rocket up their arses, it's all too nicey nicey at happy to survive Villa at the moment.

[richard moore]

Taxi for Lambert and I will cover  the fare - as far away from B6 as possible. I respect the views of most on here, however I do fail to see how Lambert is taking us forward - slowly or otherwise. That was the easiest opportunity in quite some time for us to turn over Utd in their own back yard and once again we fail. I feel that the club is going backwards, certainly on the field.
I do chuckle when some posters talk of the fact we played some good stuff and had we have taken our chances etc - we lost 4-1 FFS, for the second time in a week to two distinctly average sides - what does that make us?

Spot on my dear friend. Just what does it take for the penny to drop? I guess relegation probably. When you drop the idiot off, I'll take him on from there even further away from my beloved club. He is making a laughing stock of us. It's about time people woke up and smelt the coffee because we are going to finish about 15th for evermore at this rate. If you're happy with that, fine, but I was brought up to expect something very very very different. Sorry if this offends people, but it's time for some straight talking instead of all this fannying around the issue

[Archie]

Took the words off my mouth Richard.