The Paul Lambert thread - poll reset after our capitulation to Hull

[ClaretAndBlueBlood]

If we don't sign 3 or 4 higher level, both ability and priced, players this summer it will be down to one person at the club.

I think if you support Lambert then you naturally have that expectation of him in order to maintain that support. This is a critical summer.

It will be completely down to him. This summer makes him or kills him long term at Villa. Signs the 3-4 quality players we need and we kick on, great. Goes off to poundland latvia and comes back with a Tonev mk2 and a few Syllas thrown in, and I think I would give him till Christmas.

will it really? what about the budget constraints that he is working under i.e. having to rebuild pretty much the whole squad with not that much in the way of transfer fees and even less to offer in wages? Do you really think he would be off signing Tonev, Sylla and most of the others with decent funds at his disposal? seriously now, who do you think is really pulling the strings

[ClaretAndBlueBlood]

The one thing that makes me feel a little bit sorry for Lambert is the early season injury to Okore.  With him in the side I think we'd be about 5 or 6 points better off making us comfortably mid table at this stage.

Both of this year's big signings have spent more time injured than fit.  It's probably worth factoring that in when it is claimed he's spent £40m in the last two years.  Probably a third of that has been injured, and not to niggles which he could have'managed' better.

Also need to take account of the fact that he has spent £40m on how many players? Not just 5 or 6 - the only sizeable transfer fees have been for Benteke and Kozak and even those are fairly modest fees when it comes to strikers

[Toronto Villa]

I expected you to spring to his defence TV and I respect that but it is not legitimate to point Wenger or Mourinho or any established manager's bad spells and say that this excuses Lambert's lack of progress.   The excruciatingly painful truth lies in the statistics.   As I pointed out the time on the pitch when we are as bad to watch as any time I have ever seen the team exceeds the time when they play well by a factor of at least ten.   Even in the game against Norwich which was hailed as yet another Lambert new dawn we were abject in the first quarter and in the second half we were just like we were against Stoke in the latter seventy minutes except the difference is that Stoke spotted how frail we are and Norwich did not.   Wenger and Murinho have a body of statistics to put on the credit side of their reputations.   Lambert has nothing.   I think it has become pretty clear that blind faith in him is looking increasingly misplaced.   My opinion of him is that he is a flawed manager with a flawed team around him.   Given five years and a bit of luck in the transfer market the bumps and shakes and wobbles which the cause the wheels to be off more than they are on might be smoothed out into mid table security.   I for one could not endure another five years like we have had of late and I am about as die hard as they come.   I genuinely admire the Lambert enthusiasts for their loyalty but like I say, my own personal opinion is that it is misplaced.

so basically, you've completely written him off after 18 months, ignored anything he has achieved as a manager in the game, ignored the circumstances around his appointment and what he has had to work with since, and given a pass to Wenger and Mourinho because of the body of their work, yet ignored the fact that they between spent somewhere near 1/2 billion in transfer fees and wages, and today have sides that we can only dream of. Oh and Wenger has had numerous very high profile batterings in his Arsenal career and won nothing for 7 years. We can ignore that too as it suits your argument. That seems all very fair.

And if you are going to suggest I have blind faith in Lambert it might be wise for you to read my posts as opposed to writing lengthy paragraphs where it shows you haven't. My point has always been that if you are give Lambert stick, which he deserves at times, admit also that some things are good and should be commended.

[Concrete John]

The excruciatingly painful truth lies in the statistics.   As I pointed out the time on the pitch when we are as bad to watch as any time I have ever seen the team exceeds the time when they play well by a factor of at least ten.

So, by statistics you mean your opinion?

[ClaretAndBlueBlood]

I'm with TV, you cant compare the job Lambert is doing with that of Wenger and Mourinho - completely different parameters and working conditions. They can basically go out and buy world class players whenever they like and we can go out and buy lower division players from France, Holland etc

[brian green]

I will answer just the central insult of your totally unjustifiably hostile post.  Have I lost faith in Lambert after 18 months?  Yes I have.

[passitsideways]

This had probably been covered before time and time again, but if you go to transfermarkt.com and look at Villa's transfer business since he took over, the 15 players who he has actually paid a fee for (i.e. not free agents or loanees) total to 47.7 million euros (though I remember him saying last summer that Westwood and Lowton, among others, cost less than what was quoted officially). If you remove Benteke, Kozak and Okore (the three who actually cost substantial money), and Steer and Bowery (who cost nominal fees and weren't expected to be anything but marginal anyway), you're left with around 25 million euros for ten players, each of whom were signed with the expectation that they would be at the very least squad players, and some being actual starters in the Premier League.

If you look at it like that, 25 million euros is simply nowhere near enough to buy enough to transform what was a relegation-level squad (yes, I think a squad containing mediocre centre halves in Dunne and Collins, terrible fullbacks, absolutely no experience in midfield after Stan's illness, a couple of decent but one-dimensional strikers in Gabby and Bent, two massively inconsistent attacking players in Ireland and N'Zogbia and a bunch of largely unproven academy kids is relegation-level) into anything much more than what we are now. I think it's valid to criticise Lambert's tactical stubborness and approach sometimes, but I just don't see how one can argue that he should have done more with what he was given.

[Witton Warrior]

Every time I go to write what i think about Paul Lambert I am so conflicted between supporting AVFC, wanting some stability etc and the fact that i have watched a load of toss for 2 seasons (with a small number of notable exceptions) I just end up "buffering"...

[Toronto Villa]

I will answer just the central insult of your totally unjustifiably hostile post.  Have I lost faith in Lambert after 18 months?  Yes I have.

It was no more so than yours. I haven't sprung to his defence. I have merely suggested that there other factors than pinning it all on the manager that have contributed to our results. I have said that all along and never once shown blind faith in him as you go on to suggest. When you accuse anyone of blind faith it's a little insulting when it is completely wrong.

[sirlordbaltimore]

Also need to take account of the fact that he has spent £40m on how many players? Not just 5 or 6

Which was surely his choice as was his decision to cast aside a lot of experienced players that he inherited. If they were all THAT bad then surely McLeish must've been some sort of genius keeping us up with them

I think he came in and his ego said 'i need to make my mark'. Sadly it hasn't worked out too good so far

[Mister E]

For me, the bottom line is that
1. he has been unlucky with some injuries ... but then all managers face that risk
2. he has favoured quantity over quality - understandably for many reasons
3. he massively risked the tactic of ostracising those playeres he thought overpriced / too costly
4. he has underestimated the importance of energetic, skilled and dynamic MF players.

Points 2 and 4 are the ones that he needs to address in the summer. We may then see whether he has the tactical nous to exploit the stronger squad.

As far as his future is concerned, he ain't going anywhere, in my opinion!

[supertom]

I'd like a manager who offers more good points than bad. So far Lambert's bad points outweigh the good, comfortably. Whether he can turn this round to parity or positive, remains to be seen. My gut says he'll never quite make it. The trouble is we've not got the people higher up at the club with the judgement to make an inspired choice next time out, if you look at the fella at Soton, who no one had ever heard of for example. I think it takes a good deal of nous and football knowledge at a club to make a punt like that which comes off, but Faulkner and Lerner don't have much footballing nous.

Nor do we have the budget to be ambitious and get a more high profile coach with a track record to suggest he'd more than likely improve things.

So I would guess any subsequent appointment would be someone similar to Lambert who's worked his way up the leagues and has potential, or it'll be a plodder/journeyman with a track record of solid but unspectacular. But even then, managers like that, say Hughes for example, cost a pretty penny. I wonder if that was in part why we chose not to go with him a couple of years back, when at one point it seemed highly likely he was our next manager.

[dave.woodhall]

I'd like a manager who offers more good points than bad. So far Lambert's bad points outweigh the good, comfortably. Whether he can turn this round to parity or positive, remains to be seen. My gut says he'll never quite make it. The trouble is we've not got the people higher up at the club with the judgement to make an inspired choice next time out, if you look at the fella at Soton, who no one had ever heard of for example. I think it takes a good deal of nous and football knowledge at a club to make a punt like that which comes off, but Faulkner and Lerner don't have much footballing nous.

Nor do we have the budget to be ambitious and get a more high profile coach with a track record to suggest he'd more than likely improve things.

So I would guess any subsequent appointment would be someone similar to Lambert who's worked his way up the leagues and has potential, or it'll be a plodder/journeyman with a track record of solid but unspectacular. But even then, managers like that, say Hughes for example, cost a pretty penny. I wonder if that was in part why we chose not to go with him a couple of years back, when at one point it seemed highly likely he was our next manager.

Would that be the couple of years back when Lambert was the overwhelming fans' choice for the job?

[Ian.]

I'd like a manager who offers more good points than bad. So far Lambert's bad points outweigh the good, comfortably. Whether he can turn this round to parity or positive, remains to be seen. My gut says he'll never quite make it. The trouble is we've not got the people higher up at the club with the judgement to make an inspired choice next time out, if you look at the fella at Soton, who no one had ever heard of for example. I think it takes a good deal of nous and football knowledge at a club to make a punt like that which comes off, but Faulkner and Lerner don't have much footballing nous.

Nor do we have the budget to be ambitious and get a more high profile coach with a track record to suggest he'd more than likely improve things.

So I would guess any subsequent appointment would be someone similar to Lambert who's worked his way up the leagues and has potential, or it'll be a plodder/journeyman with a track record of solid but unspectacular. But even then, managers like that, say Hughes for example, cost a pretty penny. I wonder if that was in part why we chose not to go with him a couple of years back, when at one point it seemed highly likely he was our next manager.

Would that be the couple of years back when Lambert was the overwhelming fans' choice for the job?

The same time when the whole of Villa Park was singing Paul Lambert's Claret and Blue Army while he was still managing Norwich?

[supertom]

I'd like a manager who offers more good points than bad. So far Lambert's bad points outweigh the good, comfortably. Whether he can turn this round to parity or positive, remains to be seen. My gut says he'll never quite make it. The trouble is we've not got the people higher up at the club with the judgement to make an inspired choice next time out, if you look at the fella at Soton, who no one had ever heard of for example. I think it takes a good deal of nous and football knowledge at a club to make a punt like that which comes off, but Faulkner and Lerner don't have much footballing nous.

Nor do we have the budget to be ambitious and get a more high profile coach with a track record to suggest he'd more than likely improve things.

So I would guess any subsequent appointment would be someone similar to Lambert who's worked his way up the leagues and has potential, or it'll be a plodder/journeyman with a track record of solid but unspectacular. But even then, managers like that, say Hughes for example, cost a pretty penny. I wonder if that was in part why we chose not to go with him a couple of years back, when at one point it seemed highly likely he was our next manager.

Would that be the couple of years back when Lambert was the overwhelming fans' choice for the job?

He was indeed, but we're not always right are we? In terms of the Hughes thing, wasn't it before McLeish we were linked? I'm not sure it was anything more than him quitting Fulham whilst we had a vacant position and the press putting 2 and 2 together though.

In any case Lambert won't get canned if he stays up and I'd give him the benefit of one more summer to get things right, but there comes a point where Randy has to acknowledge things might not improve if we remain the same after 2.5-3 years. I'm all for stability but as long as the right man is in charge.