The Paul Lambert thread - poll reset after our capitulation to Hull

[Toronto Villa]

I think the fact that he addressed the defence as much as he did in the summer gives me hope that this summer he will undertake another major project in the midfield. I just happen to believe that with each year he will address another component of the club that needs to be fixed. Like anyone he won't get it all correct. No manager ever does, but as with Moyes and Everton it took him some time to create that stability that everyone came to respect and that Martinez is building upon. I think in the rush to smash Moyes for his disaster at Man U people are all took quick to praise Martinez for the results at Everton. A lot of good things were in place there for Martinez to pick up from, and it is because Moyes was given a time over a number of years to create that.

[PeterWithesShin]

21 points from 19 games under Poyet. So on target for 42 points in a full season. Not really comfortably safe but enough to keep them up.

[Monty]

Moyes is basically MON with a better transfer policy, which means he doesn't ruin clubs while bumping them against the glass ceiling (a considerable advantage). Martinez certainly had a lot to build on, but the real improvement in seriousness at that club, with the way they play both in tactics and in spirit, is really something. I also don't think it follows that, just because Moyes did create stability at Everton, that someone like Martinez couldn't have, and Martinez looks more able to take them beyond the level of the merely stable.

I also don't think that a change like with the defence this last summer will happen with the midfield this summer. First off I don't think it's a question that sheer personnel alone can solve, at least not at our financial level, and I think the best proof of this is that our midfielders are already pretty good. Indeed, as regards the sheer pass-and-move stuff, Westwood appears to have got worse at it since leaving the Crewe finishing school. He's tougher and better able to keep up with the pace of the game, and you'd expect that with experience (and Lambert's personal management of him, sure), but the lack of practice at the stuff of passing has taken its toll I think.

The improvement of the defence is down to signings and Vlaar getting better, essentially a personnel issue, and one in which Lambert has demonstrated his skill in the transfer market again. The midfield is a question of his entire outlook on the sport, however, and it really doesn't look like changing.

[Toronto Villa]

What I find about his outlook about football is that I don't really believe much of it. He said he didn't believe in wingers yet Albrighton has found a way back in, and he bought Tonev who can play out wide. He said a lot of things last year in defence of the defence and then brought in a defensive coach. I think, while he is annoying stubborn on a lot of things he has hinted at flexibility without really admitting to it. No manager admits to being wrong, unless you've just nutted an opposition player.

[sirlordbaltimore]

I have zero faith in him as a manager. That's nothing new because i've felt that way for about a year.

I literally have nothing positive to say about him with regards what i've seen under him thus far. When he talks i rarely find anything he says engaging, eye opening or even accurate when he talks post match. In most cases the more he talks the less i think he actually knows himself.

I don't get his football philosophy, his tactics, or his plan/project for the club. I don't get his match day demeanor which seems to consist of either clapping his hands together occasionally or sitting down looking lost.

But we're all entitled to a differing viewpoint.

[Monty]

Agreed TV, he'd far rather admit he's wrong on the pitch, so to speak, than by saying so. For that reason, really, I don't believe that he's likely to change on the pass-and-move front because, if anything, his approach on the pitch has gone backwards from this.

[Toronto Villa]

Monty, we played some lovely pass and move against Norwich, Chelsea, and for a bit of the Stoke game until it went upside down. What he needs is a player or three that when the wheels are about to come off can get the rest of the team by the scruff of the neck and get them back on track. Right now, I find when it starts to go wrong it goes very wrong and we don't have straong enough personalities to correct the situation on the pitch.

[SamTheMouse]

Monty, we played some lovely pass and move against Norwich, Chelsea, and for a bit of the Stoke game until it went upside down. What he needs is a player or three that when the wheels are about to come off can get the rest of the team by the scruff of the neck and get them back on track. Right now, I find when it starts to go wrong it goes very wrong and we don't have straong enough personalities to correct the situation on the pitch.

This is pretty much my view. I know things have been largely shite under Lambert, but there have definitely been flashes of inspiration, and considering he's still learning himself I'd like to see what he can achieve if he actually manages to sign two or three proven quality players. I think the improvement would be substantial.

[brian green]

I think the gulf between, to use the prevailing metaphor, when the wheels are on and when they fall off, is the fault of, and must be rectified by, the manager and the coaches.   Likewise the massive disparity between the amount of time on the pitch when we are playing well and when we are playing very badly is also to be laid at the door of the manager and the coaches.   If the players were consistently shit it would be an open and shut case.   The players are not good enough.   However they have shown that they can play very well but just not very often.   How can that be explained?   In my book it is because they are not being managed effectively or coached effectively.   I am sorry if it offends those of you who are fiercely loyal to Paul Lambert but I think he is learning on the job but much worse than that, he is learning very slowly and the one thing you do not have in top level football is time.   It has taken him two seasons to make the amount of improvement you should be able to get with a new broom in two months.   He is like a student in an exam who should pass but cannot complete the paper in time.

[Monty]

We play it in this haphazard way which goes wrong really, really quickly. Against Norwich it was more sustained, but for the first time this season and only for twenty minutes (twenty f***ing great minutes, but only twenty minutes). Against Chelsea it was all on the break, which we know we're better at. Against Stoke they started brilliantly, but it wasn't just the goal which shook us - they'd tranquilised us by keeping the ball better and we had no real answer. It's all so slipshod, so erratic, hanging by such a thin bit of thread. It's fine to say that we need one player to take the game by the scruff of the neck, but what does that mean? More improvising, more overreliance on the circumstantial, on the will of an individual player.

This will make such little difference. Unless we can actually sign Yaya Toure, such a player doesn't exist for us. It's not more individualism we need, it's a structure which allows us to become more than the sum of our parts. Right now, the team is like a column of matchsticks without scaffolding, relying on the wind not blowing too hard. It's the manager's job to provide that support, and he's just not doing that.

[Toronto Villa]

I think the gulf between, to use the prevailing metaphor, when the wheels are on and when they fall off, is the fault of, and must be rectified by, the manager and the coaches.   Likewise the massive disparity between the amount of time on the pitch when we are playing well and when we are playing very badly is also to be laid at the door of the manager and the coaches.   If the players were consistently shit it would be an open and shut case.   The players are not good enough.   However they have shown that they can play very well but just not very often.   How can that be explained?   In my book it is because they are not being managed effectively or coached effectively.   I am sorry if it offends those of you who are fiercely loyal to Paul Lambert but I think he is learning on the job but much worse than that, he is learning very slowly and the one thing you do not have in top level football is time.   It has taken him two seasons to make the amount of improvement you should be able to get with a new broom in two months.   He is like a student in an exam who should pass but cannot complete the paper in time.

when the wheels fell off for Arsenal at Chelsea last weekend, or against Man City or against Liverpool I didn't see the genius that is Wenger correct the situation. He even had a £40m player on the pitch for two of those three games. I didn't see the genius of Mourinho when we completely stifled them at Villa Park, in a game which his bench cost more than our entire squad. I've not seen the genius of Moyes fix things at United despite having a squad worth multi millions that won the title at a canter last year. I saw the genius of AVB get fired this year despite spending £100m on 7 or 8 players. Or Pellegrini not being able combat mighty Wigan in the FA Cup with a side worth more than the town of Wigan let alone the football team.

The point I am making is that changing things on the fly isn't as easy as it seems, and managers with a far better reputation than Lambert get it horribly wrong too. We've been beaten badly once all season, so while it might look shit at times we've managed to stay close in games more often than not. That Lambert is tactically naive or poor at times isn't being questioned, but it isn't reserved to him either.

[supertom]

I think the gulf between, to use the prevailing metaphor, when the wheels are on and when they fall off, is the fault of, and must be rectified by, the manager and the coaches.   Likewise the massive disparity between the amount of time on the pitch when we are playing well and when we are playing very badly is also to be laid at the door of the manager and the coaches.   If the players were consistently shit it would be an open and shut case.   The players are not good enough.   However they have shown that they can play very well but just not very often.   How can that be explained?   In my book it is because they are not being managed effectively or coached effectively.   I am sorry if it offends those of you who are fiercely loyal to Paul Lambert but I think he is learning on the job but much worse than that, he is learning very slowly and the one thing you do not have in top level football is time.   It has taken him two seasons to make the amount of improvement you should be able to get with a new broom in two months.   He is like a student in an exam who should pass but cannot complete the paper in time.

when the wheels fell off for Arsenal at Chelsea last weekend, or against Man City or against Liverpool I didn't see the genius that is Wenger correct the situation. He even had a £40m player on the pitch for two of those three games. I didn't see the genius of Mourinho when we completely stifled them at Villa Park, in a game which his bench cost more than our entire squad. I've not seen the genius of Moyes fix things at United despite having a squad worth multi millions that won the title at a canter last year. I saw the genius of AVB get fired this year despite spending £100m on 7 or 8 players. Or Pellegrini not being able combat mighty Wigan in the FA Cup with a side worth more than the town of Wigan let alone the football team.

The point I am making is that changing things on the fly isn't as easy as it seems, and managers with a far better reputation than Lambert get it horribly wrong too. We've been beaten badly once all season, so while it might look shit at times we've managed to stay close in games more often than not. That Lambert is tactically naive or poor at times isn't being questioned, but it isn't reserved to him either.

True.
I actually think his biggest failing has not been sufficiently addressing the midfield in the last 3 windows. We've been crying out for more quality in the middle. Midfield is the most important aspect on the pitch. It directly effects your defence and your attack. We can't rely on KEA and Westwood every week. They're squad fillers at best. We've spent most of the season with Delph looking like a one man army in the middle. He needs help. Sylla is poor, Gardner hasn't come on as hoped for a variety of reasons and Bacuna's been filling in at fullback.

2-3 good quality midfield signings this summer and we'll be in much better shape next season, and even when Lambert's dropping tactical bollocks, we'd have more chance of turning narrow defeats into draws and drab 0-0's into wins.

[Toronto Villa]

There was so much to fix though ST. So much junk from previous regimes to move out and account for, the defence was a mess, and the midfield still had players that needed to be given a chance and were. That very few of them actually stepped up has been hugely disappointing and so we had to rebiuld that on the cheap too. I honestly think it will be a big priority for the club this summer.

[PeterWithesShin]

If we don't sign 3 or 4 higher level, both ability and priced, players this summer it will be down to one person at the club.

[Toronto Villa]

If we don't sign 3 or 4 higher level, both ability and priced, players this summer it will be down to one person at the club.

I think if you support Lambert then you naturally have that expectation of him in order to maintain that support. This is a critical summer.