The Paul Lambert thread - poll reset after our capitulation to Hull

[ciggiesnbeer]

I think Stoke is a pretty perfect match to see if we can start to identify some clarity in Lambert's Jeckl and Hyde tactics/performances.

Stoke are currently midtable - like us - and would be happy with a point therefore they will sit back and soak up our pressure.  It will be a good test of our seeming progress to see if we can dictate the play more because we cannot simply rely on counter attacking football.  Furthermore the players should be on a high so confidence cannot be used as an excuse not to start the game trying to play some positive attacking football.  hopefully we will get a good clue as to what and how Lambert actually wants us to play (at least at the beginning).

I think we already have that clarity. Lambert changes things, all the time. That is who he is. I like that but I respect that others may not. Last game he played a Christmas tree formation, against Stoke I imagine he will change it up again, possibly two up front instead of one.

[pauliewalnuts]

This debates reminds me of a couple getting to their destination and then arguing because they took a different route to the one suggested.

At the start of the season most sensible people hoped for mid table and, barring a sudden reverse, that's where we will finish. Now we might taken the odd wrong turning and not always gone by the scenic route but the important point is that got to where we wanted to be.

Shouldn't that be "that we get to where we wanted to be"?

I don't think we are going to get relegated, but equally, I'm not going to declare us to have finished mid table until it actually happens. We've had an abysmal run of form and results, then two good wins. The most important thing is that we continue to turn in decent performances rather than revert to type, which is what we've done several times in the past two years.

It wasn't too long ago we drew at Liverpool and then beat Albion at home, and then took 1 point from the next 12.

In December we went to Southampton, performed well and won, only to then go and lose four in a row, including at home to Palace.

That's what we need to stop happening.

I understand that consistency is something which we need to work on, and the failure to do so reflects how we are a work in progress, but if we are going to continue to have swings in form, ideally we could start to make them less extreme.

[Chris Smith]

This debates reminds me of a couple getting to their destination and then arguing because they took a different route to the one suggested.

At the start of the season most sensible people hoped for mid table and, barring a sudden reverse, that's where we will finish. Now we might taken the odd wrong turning and not always gone by the scenic route but the important point is that got to where we wanted to be.

Shouldn't that be "that we get to where we wanted to be"?

I don't think we are going to get relegated, but equally, I'm not going to declare us to have finished mid table until it actually happens. We've had an abysmal run of form and results, then two good wins. The most important thing is that we continue to turn in decent performances rather than revert to type, which is what we've done several times in the past two years.

It wasn't too long ago we drew at Liverpool and then beat Albion at home, and then took 1 point from the next 12.

In December we went to Southampton, performed well and won, only to then go and lose four in a row, including at home to Palace.

That's what we need to stop happening.

I understand that consistency is something which we need to work on, and the failure to do so reflects how we are a work in progress, but if we are going to continue to have swings in form, ideally we could start to make them less extreme.

No, I qualified it with 'barring a sudden reverse' as, despite a few iffy performances, we have remained stubbornly in mid table all season. So, if that is how things finish up we can say job done and move on to the next stage.

[ez]

Strange how we are top half, just, but have 4 more defeats than wins which suggests to me that we are below average at the moment. If we were to win the next 4 games and equal out the wins and defeats, we'd be an average side but probably not move anywhere in the table.

[Dante Lavelli]

I think Stoke is a pretty perfect match to see if we can start to identify some clarity in Lambert's Jeckl and Hyde tactics/performances.

Stoke are currently midtable - like us - and would be happy with a point therefore they will sit back and soak up our pressure.  It will be a good test of our seeming progress to see if we can dictate the play more because we cannot simply rely on counter attacking football.  Furthermore the players should be on a high so confidence cannot be used as an excuse not to start the game trying to play some positive attacking football.  hopefully we will get a good clue as to what and how Lambert actually wants us to play (at least at the beginning).

I think we already have that clarity. Lambert changes things, all the time. That is who he is. I like that but I respect that others may not. Last game he played a Christmas tree formation, against Stoke I imagine he will change it up again, possibly two up front instead of one.

You could be right there.  Personally I do not think this is the way to manage a team, tweak around the edges with formations maybe but we seem to swing from route 1 hoofball merchants to a quite good pass and move team, often during the same game.  Those sort of jumps are illogical, so I suspect/hope they're not what Lambert wants the team to be doing and are rather a symptom of confidence/lack of experience and even a lack of skill out on the pitch.

[WALTERS WARRIORS]

This irrational play (often in the same game) is largely down to confidence and experience. Baker has played a lot of premier games now but still has moments of absolute panic. This is where the coaching team need to work. Going over video`s and stopping moments in training etc

[Chris Smith]

Strange how we are top half, just, but have 4 more defeats than wins which suggests to me that we are below average at the moment. If we were to win the next 4 games and equal out the wins and defeats, we'd be an average side but probably not move anywhere in the table.

Yet the objective, as opposed to subjective, measure says average is just what we are.

I think this is a classic case of over analysing a situation.

[davisa]

Don't see why Lambert has ever got the stick he has in the past.  He's rebuilding this club from where it was after McLeish (DOWN THE SHITTER). There was no structure financially or on the pitch and no chemistry between players and fans.  The first thing he would have had to do was re-educate Lerner and Faulkner after being brainwashed by O'neill, Houllier and MCL, then he'd be told he has no money to spend, so he went out a bought young players that cost a few Mill, and who if they failed, would not leave the club £80million out of pocket with a huge payroll, instead it would be closer to £8million, with a small payroll.  It worked to an extent, so he persisted. Some of his signing's have failed, a couple have been brilliant, and some are only just coming into their own.  We've made slow progress without putting the future of the club in any jeopardy.. Surely that's the most important thing right? 

The away following has been Ultra supportive of Lambert even when times have been tough, we're superb away afterall! however conquering Villa park was always going to take time especially after the handling of it from the previous 3 Muskaqueers.  The problem these days with football is that you can't just lose a game without people over analyzing it and highlighting every single negative.  The fact is, it happens, we will lose games of football.. This season our worst result in the league was the 0-3 loss to United at home, apart from that, we rarely get well beaten and we're competitive against everybody we have come up against, hence why we have taken 10 points off the top 4. 

UTV

[pauliewalnuts]

Don't see why Lambert has ever got the stick he has in the past.  He's rebuilding this club from where it was after McLeish (DOWN THE SHITTER). There was no structure financially or on the pitch and no chemistry between players and fans.  The first thing he would have had to do was re-educate Lerner and Faulkner after being brainwashed by O'neill, Houllier and MCL, then he'd be told he has no money to spend, so he went out a bought young players that cost a few Mill, and who if they failed, would not leave the club £80million out of pocket with a huge payroll, instead it would be closer to £8million, with a small payroll. 

I don't think for a moment that it was a case of Lambert telling Lerner and Faulkner the way it needed to be done financially, but a case of them telling him "this is how it is going to be" and him agreeing to work with it.

There's no way the manager will have set that course.

We've been good against the better sides, yes, but you can't really say we've been competitive against everybody we come up against when we've lost at home to the likes of Crystal Palace or West Ham. Or indeed any of a great number of home matches in which we've been atrocious in the last two seasons.

[peter w]

Last season we were berating our defence. Even during our good run of wins we always conceded. Always. (Some statto will shoot me down somewhere). it's easy to forget those times because we barely mention them. The absolute fear when a corner was conceded, or the ball came into our box in the air, and even running at us. We couldn't keep a clean sheet for love nor money and who can forget the word Cormalty.

This season it has been different. The defence is generally tighter and I can't remember the last time we conceded from a corner. Any time the ball comes into the box in the air I have no added anxiety from poor defending and expect us to deal with it. And we usually do. It suggests that Lambert as spent this season tightening the defence and it has worked. He would have the attack to have performed better and if they had have, maybe we would be further up the table.

[brian green]

It all hinges on what is meant by Chris's use of the word "iffy" to describe the runs of games between our flashes of brilliance.   To me the word "iffy" means "not so good" or "poor" but in my personal view our bad games this season have been utterly dire.   That to me is the crux of the problem.   Potentially good players not just off form but playing very badly.   That is the gulf which has to be bridged.   I loved the whole of the Chelsea game and I loved twenty minutes of the Norwich game but only a fool would say that our troubles are behind us.

[Irish villain]

He has definitely earned a reprieve. i'd be looking for us to push on to 43+ points now and go into the summer with momentum.

Real progress for us next year would be a complete absence of any relegation talk, i.e keeping ourselves out of the mire all season and beating teams like Sunderland, Palace and West Ham when the come to Villa Park. Too early to aspire to top eight?

[adrenachrome]

Don't see why Lambert has ever got the stick he has in the past.  He's rebuilding this club from where it was after McLeish (DOWN THE SHITTER). There was no structure financially or on the pitch and no chemistry between players and fans.  The first thing he would have had to do was re-educate Lerner and Faulkner after being brainwashed by O'neill, Houllier and MCL, then he'd be told he has no money to spend, so he went out a bought young players that cost a few Mill, and who if they failed, would not leave the club £80million out of pocket with a huge payroll, instead it would be closer to £8million, with a small payroll. 

I don't think for a moment that it was a case of Lambert telling Lerner and Faulkner the way it needed to be done financially, but a case of them telling him "this is how it is going to be" and him agreeing to work with it.

There's no way the manager will have set that course.

We've been good against the better sides, yes, but you can't really say we've been competitive against everybody we come up against when we've lost at home to the likes of Crystal Palace or West Ham. Or indeed any of a great number of home matches in which we've been atrocious in the last two seasons.

What I have thought for some time is that they asked PL if he could work within strict financial parameters and he said "Yes, but I am going the whole hog and doing it my way".  V. I.  Lenin called this "bending the stick the other way". If you were cynical, you would say this was PL covering himself against being stitched up as TSM Mk 11. Less cynical observers would say that it is PL's Dortmund Vision Thing.

In either or other case, it looks like we will survive again, and supporters can once again glimpse some budding green shoots.

[Dave]

Too early to aspire to top eight?

I don't think so. If we assume that the current top seven are going to be next years top seven, I don't see why we shouldn't be aiming to finishing ahead of a Remy-less Newcastle and a Southampton team at risk of having its best players pinched in the same way that we lost Milner, Barry and Young.

[Chris Smith]

It all hinges on what is meant by Chris's use of the word "iffy" to describe the runs of games between our flashes of brilliance.   To me the word "iffy" means "not so good" or "poor" but in my personal view our bad games this season have been utterly dire.   That to me is the crux of the problem.   Potentially good players not just off form but playing very badly.   That is the gulf which has to be bridged.   I loved the whole of the Chelsea game and I loved twenty minutes of the Norwich game but only a fool would say that our troubles are behind us.

I did mean in the way you suggested I did, Brian. In that even when we have been 'iffy' we haven't been battered, we've stayed in games and generally lost by the odd goal or even scraped a point. To me that's an important step and one that means we can build from a strong foundation.

Of course, there are no guarantees that it doesn't go tits up next season but, optimist that I am, I think we will be well set to push on.