The Paul Lambert thread - poll reset after our capitulation to Hull

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Anyone who sees this and thinks Lambert has somewhere inside him the passing mentality of a Martinez or a Rodgers, a mentality which we kind of need right now, to give us some sort of identity - anyone who thinks he has this in him is delusional.

That's the worst kind of arrogance as far as I am concerned. You are basically saying "if you don't see things exactly as I see them, your views are not worthy of consideration".

I also think its wrong. West Ham away, a roasting August 2012 and we looked to pass the ball. That was how Lambert wanted to play, only he lacked the tools and still does, to make it really work.

When I talk about subtly, I am talking about Cardiff away; pushing your line just five or six yards higher to put the squeeze on their midfield totally changed the game in our favour. He has it within him.

[Dave]

Cardiff paid god knows how much for that Cornelius or whatever his name was. Norwich paid a fair whack for that Van Wolfswinkel, so it's not as if we've been mugged.

£8m on each of them I believe.

[Irish villain]

He needs to let 'it' out of him a bit more often. Some of the home games have been so laboured on our part and just absolutely dull. We have just looked like the game is so hard when the opposition (Say Sunderland, Cardiff, Palace and West Ham) are  really quite ordinary.

[Isa]

I fully comprehend your argument, my disagreement with it is that it is based on speculation of what Lambert might or might not have done at Norwich in his second season, founded on a cliché.

Not really, that was secondary to my dispute with your claim that one good season with Norwich 'proved' that he was capable at this level. The point being that by that logic, managers like Coyle and Burley also proved themselves at this level due to one good season. Quite simple really.

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The implication is that he is amongst that company because he has failed, like Burley and Coyle et al, to keep a side in the league after an initial promotion and success. Your argument was that he would have failed in his second season at Norwich. That is pure speculation.

He got a new job, spent less money that his replacement did on arguably the most difficult job in the entire division. He hasn't been spectacular, but I would wager that he is meeting the current targets set by the board (the key word here is current) hence the mooting of a new deal, just to bring us full circle.

[Isa]

No, the implication is that if Lambert has proved himself due to that season with Norwich then the same can apply to any manager who has had one good season at this level. We can't obviously prove one way or the other what he would've done at Norwich had he stayed but we can judge his Premier League record since while he has been with us and I fail to see what he has done here that has proven him to be anything other than a limited and tactically inept manager at this level. It is worth pointing out that I don't consider keeping Aston Villa in the division as an achievement.

[Concrete John]

I'm not saying he is worth that (though reports from friends and journalists I trust are very positive indeed), but would you really say Kozak is worth £7m? I like him, but he isn't worth that much, and that's my point - Lambert's priorities are clearly shown up by his willingness to overspend on one position on the one hand, and completely bypass the signing of another position on the other. Those are his priorities.

Well Kozak was top scorer in the Europa League so he was never going to come cheap. He'd have cost us double had we brought him from over here. Cardiff paid god knows how much for that Cornelius or whatever his name was. Norwich paid a fair whack for that Van Wolfswinkel, so it's not as if we've been mugged.

No we haven't been mugged, and like I say I actually like Kozak. I do think, however, that we overpaid for him and his signing shouldn't have been an uncompromisable priority. We'd probably have to overpay for any of these players - Lambert chose to overpay for the back up big man centre forward, and left us entirely without a central attacking midfielder. Anyone who sees this and thinks Lambert has somewhere inside him the passing mentality of a Martinez or a Rodgers, a mentality which we kind of need right now, to give us some sort of identity - anyone who thinks he has this in him is delusional.

Kozak is an international, Europa league top scorer last season and has a 1 in 2 record for us in the PL.  I'm really struggling to see how £7m is overpriced for him in today's market?

And in terms of priorities, the midfield trio of Westwood, Delph and Sylla had finished last season really strongly for us, so I'd question exactly how great a priority that was last summer.  Yes, I'd have bought a top player there if it was me, and Lambert tried to with Kiyotake, but our struggles there right now are more down to the loss of form of Sylla and Westwood. 

If anything, Lambert's failings in summer 2013 were around his summer 2012 signings that he might have expected too much of this season.

[LeeB]

No, the implication is that if Lambert has proved himself due to that season with Norwich then the same can apply to any manager who has had one good season at this level. We can't obviously prove one way or the other what he would've done at Norwich had he stayed but we can judge his Premier League record since while he has been with us and I fail to see what he has done here that has proven him to be anything other than a limited and tactically inept manager at this level. It is worth pointing out that I don't consider keeping Aston Villa in the division as an achievement.

It's not 'that' season at Norwich though is it, it's three consecutive seasons at Norwich, which is where the comparisons with other managers falls down, and the likes of yourself get dismissed as Malcolm Overall mark II, despite any salient points you may have made.

[Isa]

Shame you missed my original post where I make the distinction between success in the lower leagues and success in the top-flight. Let's not go in circles.

[pauliewalnuts]

Shame you missed my original post where I make the distinction between success in the lower leagues and success in the top-flight. Let's not go in circles.

What was that point?

[Isa]

Shame you missed my original post where I make the distinction between success in the lower leagues and success in the top-flight. Let's not go in circles.

What was that point?

Scroll back and you'll see...

[LeeB]

Shame you missed my original post where I make the distinction between success in the lower leagues and success in the top-flight. Let's not go in circles.

What was that point?

Scroll back and you'll see...

See what?

[pauliewalnuts]

Shame you missed my original post where I make the distinction between success in the lower leagues and success in the top-flight. Let's not go in circles.

What was that point?

Scroll back and you'll see...

How far?

It's a 72 page thread.

I was genuinely interested as to why what managers have done in the lower leagues doesn't matter. Unless I'm reading it wrong, it sounds like it's not being considered because you've decided it's not worth considering.

Which is a bit convenient.

Like I said, though, was interested to see the post, as I may well be jumping to the wrong conclusion.

[bertlambshank]

Shame you missed my original post where I make the distinction between success in the lower leagues and success in the top-flight. Let's not go in circles.

What was that point?

Scroll back and you'll see...

See what?

Is it a winkle?

[LeeB]

Shame you missed my original post where I make the distinction between success in the lower leagues and success in the top-flight. Let's not go in circles.

What was that point?

Scroll back and you'll see...

See what?

Is it a winkle?

NSFW?