The Paul Lambert thread - poll reset after our capitulation to Hull

[pauliewalnuts]

I still think Lambert can do a good job for us.  he just needs to sign premiership quality players on premiership wages.

That's where he needs help from Lerner.

Which I believe is coming this summer because financially we will be a much better position. Now, if all we sign are Ligue 2 or players from the lower leagues in England I'll pass all you lot to the "What the Fuck is going on" bandwagon.

Why will the position be much better financially?

Given has spent half the season on loan, Bent has gone, Ireland has gone for good and is never coming back. I know they were sapping money for fuck all, but we're hardly the only PL club to have unwanted players who do nothing.

I am surprised so many people seem to think that now we've spent two years hacking away at the wage bill and got it where they want it, we are going to embark on some expensive plan to stop being so shit. This is the policy they are going to stick with.

It's not as if those players are likely to be the difference between what we are doing now and a considerable change in emphasis. It will be improved when they've gone, but if you are looking for a marked change, I suspect you're going to be disappointed.

Why not? That's what I believe will happen. You have taken up the position of cynic which is fine if that's where you stand. I think that they would much rather do their shopping in the summer and not pay inflated fees or wages in January.

Not really, I've taken up the position of having had two or three years of hearing them talk almost incessantly about the wage bill, about living within our means, and how important that is, and hearing the manager back this up with his comments about players we can't afford, that I actually believe them.

It's them going on about financial prudence all the time, it's not like it's some rumour in the press.

Why do you think, having got us to a far lower wage bill, we're going to embark on some sort of spree? Why do you think they're so keen to extend the stay of a manager of (so far) utter mediocrity?

It's largely because he too has bought into the plan of buying relatively cheaply and being careful with the money.

[BoskoDjembaSalifou]

I still think Lambert can do a good job for us.  he just needs to sign premiership quality players on premiership wages.

Why do we even have a manager if we just need to sign quality players?

[SamTheMouse]

Why will the position be much better financially?

Given has spent half the season on loan, Bent has gone, Ireland has gone for good and is never coming back. I know they were sapping money for fuck all, but we're hardly the only PL club to have unwanted players who do nothing.

I am surprised so many people seem to think that now we've spent two years hacking away at the wage bill and got it where they want it, we are going to embark on some expensive plan to stop being so shit. This is the policy they are going to stick with.

It's not as if those players are likely to be the difference between what we are doing now and a considerable change in emphasis. It will be improved when they've gone, but if you are looking for a marked change, I suspect you're going to be disappointed.

I reckon we only need a couple of high quality players and we'll start looking a far better proposition. So despite my nagging suspicion that you're right and we're aiming for total long-term anonymity, I'm hanging all my hopes on the assumption that Lambert and Lerner are just taking their time, and will invest some money in two, maybe three really decent acquisitions in midfield and defence. I suspect Lerner has had enough of Bent-style panic buys and shit signings that end up costing millions for minimal return, and has told Lambert he's got to do his homework on his targets before splashing the cash. So we just need to be patient.

Of course, I'm probably wrong, but the alternative is going to make me very miserable indeed, so I'm adopting a total pig-headed refusal to look facts in the face.

[Toronto Villa]

paulie, exactly where I have either stated categorically or even suggested spending spree? I have suggested on numerous occasions that I believe that the types of signings will change and that we will spend around 25-30 on 4 or 5 players as opposed to several 1-2m punts.

[pauliewalnuts]

I don't think we're aiming for long term anonymity, that's too harsh even on our troubled leadership.

My concern with them is that they're entirely unrealistic about how they thing we're going to cease to be anonymous. They just seem to think that if they want it enough, it will happen. Westwood will turn out amazing, as will Lowton, as they've played more top flight games. The academy kids will all make it, and be high level performers for a decent period of time.

One look at Westwood, Lowton, Weimann this season (and there are others, they're not the only ones) shows just how risky that approach is.

I'm not saying I expect us to spend nothing, but I do think some people are going to have a surprise if they're foreseeing any great departure from the current basis we operate on. Does anyone really believe that the "bomb squad" (which, lest we forget, is a set up entirely of our own creating) is somehow the barrier holding us back from a new departure of investment?

Really?

I'm not amongst the most miserable about the situation, and I am not setting myself up to be a cynic or going out of my way to do so, I'm genuinely saying this because it's the impression I get from what I can see happening at the club, and I am far from the only one.

[SoccerHQ]

It has to be this summer really, people are really starting to get fed up. Protests next season I reckon if the present mentality at the club isn't changed.

[pauliewalnuts]

paulie, exactly where I have either stated categorically or even suggested spending spree? I have suggested on numerous occasions that I believe that the types of signings will change and that we will spend around 25-30 on 4 or 5 players as opposed to several 1-2m punts.

Well, I think that it overly optimistic, for a start.

The problem isn't just that £7m or £8m players cost £7m or £8m in transfer fees, it is that they demand higher wages than £1m or £2m players do. Significantly higher.

The plan is not going to suddenly change markedly because we'll get shot of Alan Hutton and Shay Given. I think we have to accept that.

I'm genuinely sick of hearing that "when we get shot of the bomb squad" thing too (and I am not talking about you here, TV, I mean in general). It's a nonsense, convenient excuse for the highly questionable ambition at the club, and if we're stuck with expensive players we can't shift, then it's a situation created by the club, but also not one we've done great work in trying to resolve - I will never be persuading that creating a ghetto-esque leper colony of players like Given or Hutton is really ever going to be conducive to selling them.

[Toronto Villa]

paulie, exactly where I have either stated categorically or even suggested spending spree? I have suggested on numerous occasions that I believe that the types of signings will change and that we will spend around 25-30 on 4 or 5 players as opposed to several 1-2m punts.

Well, I think that it overly optimistic, for a start.

The problem isn't just that £7m or £8m players cost £7m or £8m in transfer fees, it is that they demand higher wages than £1m or £2m players do. Significantly higher.

The plan is not going to suddenly change markedly because we'll get shot of Alan Hutton and Shay Given. I think we have to accept that.

really "how far have we sunk?" when 25-30m is optimistic in the PL. You'd think by that comment we never game McLeish or even Lambert close to that when things were far worse financially.

[pauliewalnuts]

paulie, exactly where I have either stated categorically or even suggested spending spree? I have suggested on numerous occasions that I believe that the types of signings will change and that we will spend around 25-30 on 4 or 5 players as opposed to several 1-2m punts.

Well, I think that it overly optimistic, for a start.

The problem isn't just that £7m or £8m players cost £7m or £8m in transfer fees, it is that they demand higher wages than £1m or £2m players do. Significantly higher.

The plan is not going to suddenly change markedly because we'll get shot of Alan Hutton and Shay Given. I think we have to accept that.

really "how far have we sunk?" when 25-30m is optimistic in the PL. You'd think by that comment we never game McLeish or even Lambert close to that when things were far worse financially.

I am not playing the "how far have we sunk" thing for a nanosecond, but look at what has happened the last two years. Look at what they've told us. Look at where we've been doing our shopping. Ask yourself why on earth we are talking about a new contract to a manager who - by pretty much anyone's definition - should be worried about his job right now.

It's not conjecture, all of the above is fact, we have been buying almost exclusively in cheap selling European leagues or the lower leagues in this country, and we've used a lot of home grown players, too.

There have been multiple times, multiple, when the club have made it really, really clear what the situation is re the wage bill and going forward.

I don't like it, I'm convinced it won't work, and so far, it's horrible to watch, but one thing I'd have thought is really clear is their conviction re finances. You've got to believe them when they say these things.

[brian green]

Toronto I respect everything you say but the Never Buy In January policy is fraught with unnecessary risks.   It is a gamble that things will get better not worse.

The secret of buying and selling anything well is to sell when everybody else is buying and buy when everybody else is selling.

Paul Lambert went out and bought a bargain bag of players in the summer.   Has he got value for money?   Our precarious position in the table and the awful, awful standard of the football at Villa Park says he has not.   As soon as this season is over half or more of them will form the new Bomb Squad.

I put it to you, which is the better use of money, two or three good, mature, proven premiership players brought in in January or a busload of "young and hungry" bench warmers in the summer?

This is the big advantage of buying in January - you know precisely what you need and you can tailor your buying accordingly.   We know we need a centre back and a No 10 and we need them now, not next August.

Not to use the January window wisely and productively is to hand a clear advantage to your competitors who are not so stubborn or short sighted.   

[Toronto Villa]

you're making the assumption or you have come to the conclusion that this is how it will always be. Again, that's fine if that is what you now believe. I don't. If you have rejected the theory that our goal is obscurity or perennial anonymity which is really where we are now then either we will improve or get worse. If you take the position that we might actually get better then we will need to buy better players which will cost on average more, and will be paid on average more. Just because the last two years have been lean doesn't mean it always will be. Unless you have recently acquired a crystal ball then all either of us can go on is our beliefs. I just don't happen to agree with you.

[olaftab]

Just seen this..


"A lot of teams would like to be where we are."

Which teams exactly?

About 7 or 8 who are below us?

there is a nats dicks difference between us all ,maybe they might envy Southampton . I do

I will be very happy to stroke that nat's dick come the end of the season.

[Toronto Villa]

Toronto I respect everything you say but the Never Buy In January policy is fraught with unnecessary risks.   It is a gamble that things will get better not worse.

The secret of buying and selling anything well is to sell when everybody else is buying and buy when everybody else is selling.

Paul Lambert went out and bought a bargain bag of players in the summer.   Has he got value for money?   Our precarious position in the table and the awful, awful standard of the football at Villa Park says he has not.   As soon as this season is over half or more of them will form the new Bomb Squad.

I put it to you, which is the better use of money, two or three good, mature, proven premiership players brought in in January or a busload of "young and hungry" bench warmers in the summer?

This is the big advantage of buying in January - you know precisely what you need and you can tailor your buying accordingly.   We know we need a centre back and a No 10 and we need them now, not next August.

Not to use the January window wisely and productively is to hand a clear advantage to your competitors who are not so stubborn or short sighted.   

Brian, I don't think the club has taken the position of never again buying in January. I happen to think it referred to this January. I didn't agree with it but then again I wasn't strongly in favour of buying for the sake of it either. If the summer turns out to be a "busload of "young and hungry" then I'll be wrong. I just happen to believe that it won't always be our policy and that we are trying to get to a position of only adding a few quality players a season not busloads of average ones.

[David_Nab]

For me what is certain is if we continue how we have we will go down eventually.Either you act like a prem league team and buy accordingly or you keep shopping from the lower leagues and end up there yourself.

[brian green]

Its leopards and spots for me I'm afraid TV but then I am old and tired.   I truly hope you are right but I fear you are not.