The Paul Lambert thread - poll reset after our capitulation to Hull

[OzVilla]

Can't believe they're talking about a new contract, absurd considering.

This time last season, I felt that if we could only stay up we'd have the foundations to build on, young players getting better with the experience, PL getting his philosophy into the tam, addition of a couple of experienced quality players etc. I really felt positive if we stayed up.

12 months on and I'm just totally deflated. Young players ave gone backwards in not seemed to have learned, PL has played hoof ball pretty much all year, we're dire to watch and when we had a chance to strengthen in January we did basically fuck all. We also have an owner who plainly dosn't give a toss anymore.

If we do stay up (and I'm by no means as sure we will as many others on here) it'll be more of the same next season until our inevitable relegation happens.

Totally deflated by the club now and have been for months tbh. To offer PL a new contract is cluelessness on a breathtaking scale by Faulkner, even by his standards.

Wish I didn't care as much as I do!

[mike]

Of course Westwood isn't as good as Petrov, but his job is the same and he does just fine

So we're happy to take a drop in standard? Sorry, not my argument to get into but it just sums up the lowered expectations we all have. We're not as good as we used to be but it's alright because we're not as crap as some make out.

[eastie]

We have seen these players can produce and do have ability at their best - lambert is to blame for the fact that he cannot get them playing at their best often enough, his tactics and selections leave a lot to be desired - he should not be manager of this club any longer.

[brian green]

Right on eastie, as always.   When we went to see the pre season tour in Germany Bacuna looked an outstanding buy, sharp and busy, a real handful.   The Bacuna of yesterday was none of those things.   For me the last resort of a manager who cannot manage is the recourse to buying players he used to be able to get something from eg Holt (and nearly Hollahan).

[claret and blue blood]

I wish someone had started a "new contract you're having a laugh" song yesterday!

[Irish villain]

Of course Westwood isn't as good as Petrov, but his job is the same and he does just fine

So we're happy to take a drop in standard? Sorry, not my argument to get into but it just sums up the lowered expectations we all have. We're not as good as we used to be but it's alright because we're not as crap as some make out.

Lowered expectations really get me too. I've seen it on here so often after defeats to the likes of Stoke, Palace, Fulham, West Ham. Teams that are relegation candidates and you  get so many people saying 'it is what it is', or 'that's midtable for you'.

Just how often have we looked comfortable this season? maybe on the opening day, against Chelsea away (still couldn't get a point mind), maybe Cardiff at home and then at Anfield. Let's say five occasions when we performed well and looked like a mid-table side. A couple of smash 'n grabs can be thrown into the mix too but by and large we have been awful.

The longer it continues, the lower the expectation and the lower those standards will get. It's a vicious cycle that will lead to one thing and one thing only.

[brian green]

You are exactly right I V   In this world what you don't demand you don't get.

[Irish villain]

You've got one of the biggest clubs in the country, but you have to get all Geroge Osbourne on it for at least two seasons and cut to the bone. Tempting and terrifying. O'Neill certainly lacked the bottle, maybe I am being harsh on Martinez.

Very harsh. If football management was about 'bottle',wouldn't Leeds have got a top manager who was 'up for the challenge' by now?

Well that's Ads' argument blown clear out of the water.

Ha, that's a laugh SH, as if you were ever going to entertain a moment's thought of even trying to understand it.

I see Ads' point.  To answer IV, Leeds wouldn't have got a top manager, no.  A proven, successful, established "top" manager would not have any need to take on such a challenge.  Or, indeed, Aston Villa in June 2012.  The Villa job required someone willing to put their reputation on the line; not some Megson-shaped lump from the managerial merry-go-round, not someone looking for a last pay day, someone with potential, hunger and a big bloody ego to step into a massive club and start again from scratch.  I don't think you can deny that it takes bottle to do that, and for all his faults, I think it should be recognised that Lambert had the balls to take on the task.   Failure could have dire consequences for his entire managerial career, but he backed himself to do the job.  Whether he was right to do so will be proven in time. 

It might be worth remembering that back in 1987 we were in a much worse situation than this, and were saved by a man at a very similar point in his career.  Graham Taylor was 43 and had built his reputation guiding an unfashionable club to successive promotions and establishing them in the top league.  We were his first big club.  He had a lot of expectation on his shoulders and a lot to lose, but he was up for the challenge.  He had the bottle to put his neck on the line, and how glad we are that he did.  I'm not saying that Lambert will achieve as much as Taylor, merely that sometimes someone has to take that risk.  Bottle is involved in that.  It's not the only thing, but it's not to be underestimated.   

Regarding Martinez, I wouldn't accuse him of bottling the challenge, as I don't know what his reasons were for turning us down.  I do think though that the job he took on at Everton was a whole lot more straightforward than the one he would have faced with us.

I don't think anybody could disagree with your post chinchlla. It's just that ads kept saying Martinez didn't have the bottle fort he Villa job when he clearly at one stage had had the bottle for jobs like Swansea and Wigan. Ads was talking as  though we were offering him the chance of a lifetime when he clearly didn't see it like that. We don't know what went on behind the scenes but we can't assume that just because we are a big club managers like Martinez will be prepared to put their reputation on the line to come and oversee the reduction in the wage bill, the sale of players like Young & Downing and work within the parameters of a very small budget.

Being big is one thing, but being in those circumstances and offering those conditions is another entirely.

[andyh]

Of course Westwood isn't as good as Petrov, but his job is the same and he does just fine

So we're happy to take a drop in standard? Sorry, not my argument to get into but it just sums up the lowered expectations we all have. We're not as good as we used to be but it's alright because we're not as crap as some make out.

Lowered expectations really get me too. I've seen it on here so often after defeats to the likes of Stoke, Palace, Fulham, West Ham. Teams that are relegation candidates and you  get so many people saying 'it is what it is', or 'that's midtable for you'.

Just how often have we looked comfortable this season? maybe on the opening day, against Chelsea away (still couldn't get a point mind), maybe Cardiff at home and then at Anfield. Let's say five occasions when we performed well and looked like a mid-table side. A couple of smash 'n grabs can be thrown into the mix too but by and large wehave been awful.

The longer it continues, the lower the expectoration, the lower the standards will get. It's a vicious cycle that will lead to one thing and one thing only.

I think this is exactly right.
I was thinking after the Boggies game, about how euphoric we all were after the win and how that lasted for days.
It's not the fact that it was them, it's the fact that we actually won a game....at home as well.
Of course it's great to win, but it's so infrequent now that a 'routine' win now feels like winning a cup final.
This must be how little clubs feel.

[Jimbo]

Right on eastie, as always.   When we went to see the pre season tour in Germany Bacuna looked an outstanding buy, sharp and busy, a real handful.   The Bacuna of yesterday was none of those things.   For me the last resort of a manager who cannot manage is the recourse to buying players he used to be able to get something from eg Holt (and nearly Hollahan).

Exactly. As suggested near the end of the transfer window, it looks like Lambert has run out of ideas. And not just in the transfer market, but also in the dressing room. And on the pitch. And in the press room. And he's going nowhere.

[Irish villain]

Sorry,I hit quote instead of 'modify'.

[supertom]

There are worrying similarities to ourselves and Wigan to be honest. They flirted with relegation year upon year, and gradually Whelan felt he could scrape by in the top flight whilst cutting costs. You look back to their first few years in the top flight and they weren't actually afraid to spend a fair bit (for them) on wages with players like Camara, Heskey etc. They also sold their best players like Baines and Valencia, being quite happy not to replace them.

Martinez was working on a shoestring and lets be honest he's a much better manager than Lambert. He's proved he can play the game tactically and win a game with his head and get his sides playing football. Martinez took Wigan down, so if we stick with Lambert I see him doing the same.  To be honest, at times under Lambert we've looked as downright clueless as I've ever seen us, including McLeish.

He should be fired. If we give him a new contract it basically does nothing but hammer home how much Randy is happy to continue with this dross, as long as we scrape by every year. But if he thinks we're immune from relegation because we've been in the Prem every year since it's creation, then he's very much mistaken.

We'll crawl over the line again this year, but next season, minus Benteke? We can't hope for a group of 10 fuck awful sides around us again. Some teams in the bottom half have the propensity for change. If we do something about this, then so do we. But Lambert is in no way, shape, or form the right man for this job. He's been easily out thought by managers like Hughes, Pulis, the fella at Stoke, and Big Fat Sam. That says a lot. Cardiff will be well up for the game. It's a game they must win and if they do we're in massive trouble.

[Ads]

You've got one of the biggest clubs in the country, but you have to get all Geroge Osbourne on it for at least two seasons and cut to the bone. Tempting and terrifying. O'Neill certainly lacked the bottle, maybe I am being harsh on Martinez.

Very harsh. If football management was about 'bottle',wouldn't Leeds have got a top manager who was 'up for the challenge' by now?

Well that's Ads' argument blown clear out of the water.

Only if you think our financial situation is the equivalent to Leeds Uniteds. Which it plainly is not, thankfully very few clubs have had to suffer such financial catastraphoe as Leeds. They have also played third division football recently and been out of the top flight for ten years.

So yes, if you ignore all of the huge differences above, that make it a ridiculous comparison, then you might be able to say my argument has been rebutted.

[Ads]

I am with you Monty. It is not Westwoods fault that the players in front refuse to use their god given pace and knowhow to move off their marker. They can do it. Gabby did it against Norwich and Westwood played a ball so good he only had to touch it once into the back of the net.

As soon as Albrighton came on, he actually had an option.

[olaftab]

The sound bites being used on here to condemn the manager are in free flow however judging him after a poor home defeat is not the best thing to do. For me it's not been the same since his words before the Sheff Utd game and his prep of the team during the game. It showed that he is not a passionate football man but a compliance man merely doing as he is told by the owners. This coupled with reality that we have to  live on a "business like" budget is depressing. It is a shame that Aston Villa Football club has sunk to a level where just survival in the League will do.