The Paul Lambert thread - poll reset after our capitulation to Hull

[PaulWinch again]

Quite possibly it's a factor, and it's probably also to do with confidence. I'm not saying they're a great side, but they were a lot more incisive and impressive last year.

[sirlordbaltimore]

If Lambert had spent £50 million a season on transfers and we were sitting midtable he would be getting away with mediocrity.  Over the past eighteen months he has totally stripped down and rebuilt the squad spending, on average, two/three million per player.  In the process he has reversed the club's three year slide down the table and now has us sitting in midtable.  That's not mediocre management in my book.

Having spent 42m in those 18 months of course.

And we were only in a one year slide down the table when he took over, unless you count finishing 9th under Houllier as a slide (i guess it was from 6th under O'Neill but not a massive one)

[Rudy Can't Fail]

Swansea play tedious and toothless nothing football.

Not last year, they lost their main goal scorer for most of this season.

The year before they weren't bad either. Or the year before. Liverpool certainly rated their manager. In fact, they've been playing tedious and toothless nothing football since 2007.

[Villa in Denmark]

If Lambert had spent £50 million a season on transfers and we were sitting midtable he would be getting away with mediocrity.  Over the past eighteen months he has totally stripped down and rebuilt the squad spending, on average, two/three million per player.  In the process he has reversed the club's three year slide down the table and now has us sitting in midtable.  That's not mediocre management in my book.

Having spent 42m in those 18 months of course.

And we were only in a one year slide down the table when he took over, unless you count finishing 9th under Houllier as a slide (i guess it was from 6th under O'Neill but not a massive one)

Now we can't have it both ways. Perceive wisdom is that Houlliers season was a relegation battle with a lucky end of season seeing us finish so high.

Re Laudrup, the word over here is that Jenkins was worried that Laudrup would up sticks if it got really tough, and that's what they fell out over, on top of the rumblings about transfer budgets and targets.

And for all the outrage about starting talks with Lambert now, if it was a player approaching the last 12 months of their contract, we'd be going mental about why wasn't something getting sorted.  It's as much about protecting the value of the asset 2 years down the line, and if the contract is a 2 year extension to take it back up to three years, both parties  have probably got the right levels of exposure to risk.

On top of which, for all we know the conversation could have been as simple as "How would you feel about signing an extension if we're in such and such a position at seasons end."

[Ads]

And by August 2015 they will be plying their toothless brand of yawning inducing football back in the Championship

[LeeB]

If Lambert had spent £50 million a season on transfers and we were sitting midtable he would be getting away with mediocrity.  Over the past eighteen months he has totally stripped down and rebuilt the squad spending, on average, two/three million per player.  In the process he has reversed the club's three year slide down the table and now has us sitting in midtable.  That's not mediocre management in my book.

Having spent 42m in those 18 months of course.

And we were only in a one year slide down the table when he took over, unless you count finishing 9th under Houllier as a slide (i guess it was from 6th under O'Neill but not a massive one)

I had it slightly under £40m, for 16 players.

It's a couple of mill more than West Ham and Cardiff have spent over the same period, and that doesn't take into account wages and signing on fees. I bet Downing and Carroll's wages alone would cover nearly all of ours.

I

[Dante Lavelli]

If Lambert had spent £50 million a season on transfers and we were sitting midtable he would be getting away with mediocrity.  Over the past eighteen months he has totally stripped down and rebuilt the squad spending, on average, two/three million per player.  In the process he has reversed the club's three year slide down the table and now has us sitting in midtable.  That's not mediocre management in my book.

Having spent 42m in those 18 months of course.

And we were only in a one year slide down the table when he took over, unless you count finishing 9th under Houllier as a slide (i guess it was from 6th under O'Neill but not a massive one)

I had it slightly under £40m, for 16 players.

It's a couple of mill more than West Ham and Cardiff have spent over the same period, and that doesn't take into account wages and signing on fees. I bet Downing and Carroll's wages alone would cover nearly all of ours.

I

The wages are the crucial thing.  Lambert's done a magnificent job of building a mid table premiership side whilst slashing the wage bill.  I genuinely cannot think of a manager who would have had the balls to tackle it so aggressively.  But, and here's the rub, we now need to start entertaining the crowd and showing that this isn't the sum of our ambitions.  After all he should now have 15-20m to spend on three rather than eight players each season.

I also think he needs to start trusting the youth system.  No more Tonevs, He might as well integrate Grelish.  Concentrate on quality rather than quantity and trust the youth players to fill the gaps.   

[Toronto Villa]

I think it's a good thing that Lambert has had his contract sorted out, it will bring some much needed stability and allow for some long term planning to be put in place.  I believe given time he will prove to be the right man for the job.
Sadly I think the owner has lost interest and that will make life difficult for Lambert.

yet that is contrary to everything Lambert has said about his relationship with the chairman. At some point you have to take him at face value or consider him a liar. Personally I think Lerner still takes an active interest in the club irrespective of whether he goes to games or not. I think there is more hue and cry over the chairman's attendance when things aren't going to plan. I wonder if people would care as much if the team were winning and Lerner wasn't at the games?

[Rudy Can't Fail]

And by August 2015 they will be plying their toothless brand of yawning inducing football back in the Championship

You must have hated the Liverpool game, especially the first half.

The wages are the crucial thing.  Lambert's done a magnificent job of building a mid table premiership side whilst slashing the wage bill.  I genuinely cannot think of a manager who would have had the balls to tackle it so aggressively.  But, and here's the rub, we now need to start entertaining the crowd and showing that this isn't the sum of our ambitions.  After all he should now have 15-20m to spend on three rather than eight players each season.

He does deserve massive credit for the way he's gone about reducing the wage bill and with the exception of one or two, all his signings have shown they can play but like Eric Morecombe said, all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order. It's puzzling and extremely frustrating how he doesn't seem to have a plan unless you include counter attacking. We still look like we're scared to have the ball (with the exception of Gabby) and panic when we do. There's no method to how we play and after 18 months it's starting to be a big concern.

I still think we'll be okay and will have another Sunderland moment where we slaughter somebody, either tomorrow or more likely Norwich later this month. Obviously confidence is essential and it will help us we finish the season safely in midtable. It just seems a shame that we're not maximising the potential of the team, at times it looks like they really don't know what they're supposed to do other than Guzan who's obviously got very strict orders.

We can only hope Lambert starts to get the footballing side right because I guess we're stuck with him now. Again, in his defence, he's still learning so let's hope and pray he tackles the way the team play with the same aggression and determination he's tackled the wage bill.

[pauliewalnuts]

And by August 2015 they will be plying their toothless brand of yawning inducing football back in the Championship

Toothless and yawn inducing? Sounds familiar.

[PaulWinch again]

And by August 2015 they will be plying their toothless brand of yawning inducing football back in the Championship

Toothless and yawn inducing? Sounds familiar.

I was going to say something about glass houses. I don't think we should be criticising Swansea too much for a pretty average season given how they've performed over last few years.

[Ads]

Should we be fawning over a side who are capable of keeping the ball in an area of the pitch they're welcome to keep it?

Thy had 70% of the play against lump it Villa and with twice the possession managed to produce the same out put. Watching a full back and centre half exchange passes relentlessly is just as pointless as watching a goal keeper hit the front relentlessly; scratch that, the later has at least produced a goal or two in its time.

Swansea are purveyors of tedious going nowhere football. Their former manager ran out of ideas and exchanged one brand of tedious football for another last weekend. They will be confined to the bin of small clubs who made it to the top flight and went back down the shoot.

[Dante Lavelli]

Should we be fawning over a side who are capable of keeping the ball in an area of the pitch they're welcome to keep it?

It's not necessarily fawning over swansea and their style.  What I am jealous of is the fact they appear to a have, at club level, a defined philosophy of football.  Define that, whatever your philosophy is, and it's easier to learn, develop and evolve.  whereas lambert seems to ask the squad to be a pressing team one week whilst sitting the next.  Passing from the back one half and then hitting it long the next.  Imagine being a young players, swapping from one tactic to another each week.

[Monty]

On Swansea, it seems to me that they've done a Stefan Kovacs. After Michels the slavedriver had left Ajax, laying the groundwork of total football, this Romanian Kovacs came in and allowed them to relax a bit and they reached their highest peaks under him - but eventually that laxness led to the whole thing falling apart. Rodgers really worked them hard, but it was under Laudrup where Swansea won the trophy and everything, but eventually his more relaxed approach has led to aimlessness. It's much more complicated than saying 'passing football is rubbish because it's defenders passing to each other' - an utterly risible thing to argue.

For Lambert, I don't think he wants to be a lumper, I just think he's impatient. In many ways he's more frustrating than McLeish, because in so many ways he's so much better. For a start, when his transfers pay off they really pay off, and he deserves applause for this. Also, where McLeish would be forever passing the buck when we lost, passing blame on and saying 'there's nothing I can do', if we play badly Lambert, whatever he says in private, goes to the media and says 'we played badly', presenting a united front to the world in a way which can only be good for player morale.

Most importantly, he obviously means well. He wants us to play good football and sometimes we do - the first half against Liverpool was brilliant - but we only seem to do when a big external factor goes in our favour, like Rodgers having the worst tactical day of his life. Lambert's football is well-intentioned but impatient: ultimately, he wants the ball to Benteke quickly, and if that means lumping then so be it, and he's a bit too willing to allow the hoof and indeed to encourage it needlessly from unpromisingly placed free kicks. He's old fashioned in the sense that he's a bit 90s Germany - some three-at-the-back variations, quick back-to-front stuff, a Big Guy to do the groundwork on his own. The problem is that the spaces in which that stuff operated aren't there now, and we need alternatives. Lambert has so far failed to provide any.

Believe me when I say that I like Paul Lambert. I would love Lambert to succeed. In fact, in that first half at Anfield I really thought we'd seen the turning point - but then he brought on Grant Holt, who did fine, but it betrayed the fact that his old tendencies and biases were still there unchanged. I would love him to be the guy to bring proper, entertaining football to VP, but he's had 18 months and four transfer windows and every step forward seems followed by two in retreat.

[dave.woodhall]

On Swansea, it seems to me that they've done a Stefan Kovacs. After Michels the slavedriver had left Ajax, laying the groundwork of total football, this Romanian Kovacs came in and allowed them to relax a bit, and they reached their highest peaks under him, but eventually that laxness led to the whole thing falling apart. Rodgers really worked them hard, but it was under Laudrup where Swansea won the trophy and everything, but eventually his more relaxed approach has led to aimlessness. It's much more complicated that saying 'passing football is rubbish because it's defenders passing to each other' - an utterly risible thing to argue.

That sounds like something a lot closer to home - Messrs Saunders and Barton.