The Paul Lambert thread - poll reset after our capitulation to Hull

[Jimbo]

I'm sorry, it's proof that not only does Lerner not go to the matches, he doesn't watch them at all. Stability is nonsense if you don't have the right man for the job - stability, in fact, is just a synonym for loss of momentum.

Not even saying that he should be sacked, just that he's hardly done enough, in a pretty rocky, up-and-down year and a half, to warrant a mid-season extension of his contract.

He watches every game by video link evidently, so he's seeing as much as the armchair critics, and is presumably satisifed with how things are going even if many fans aren't.

Stability is important, but whether Lambert is the right manager remains to be seen. I certainly wouldn't be offering improved terms unless tied to improved performance.

Lambert is working under whatever terms the Owner has said he must, but I'd like to feel more confidence in what Lambert's vision is, albeit under any restraints.

Faulkner might say Lerner isn't actively seeking to sell Villa, but that isn't the same as saying he's no intention of selling, should the right offer come along.

Everything is for sale at the right price.

The new owners though, would have to buy off Lambert's contract if they wanted to bring their own people in, which will add to the overall cost of the buy out and be a bit of an off putter.  This is why this new contract seems to be a statement to me that Aston Villa are not for sale.

If potential new owners can't afford to pay off five Lamberts, then they're not the new owners we want or need at Villa Park.

[dave.woodhall]

We play well at Liverpool and on the whole against the Albion and follow it up by playing badly against Everton. It is what it is.

Not exactly, we were set up right against Liverpool and to an extent against West Brom. We were set up too negatively against Everton.

Draw, win, lose. Play very well, play pretty well, play poorly. There is a term for that; "mid-table".

I tried to write something that touched on this - our last three mangers, including THAT one, have all hinted at being able to get far better out of the team than they did/do. All of them have pulled off a great result or two, or shown some signs of playing decent football, only for the next week to invariably resort to dross. We are the Audley Harrison of the Premier League.

Shouldn't you have used Danny Williams  Dave?

Mind you I don't know why people have a go at Audley. Its not as though he's hurt anyone!

Danny Williams made the most of what talents he had. Audley could have done better, and anyone who takes the piss should remember he won Olympic gold and was European champion.

[Chris Smith]

We play well at Liverpool and on the whole against the Albion and follow it up by playing badly against Everton. It is what it is.

Not exactly, we were set up right against Liverpool and to an extent against West Brom. We were set up too negatively against Everton.

I think part of that is that we are not yet good enough to dictate the pattern of the game against the better sides, how we play will often be reactive. Liverpool allowed us space and we took full advantage, Everton pushed us back for long periods by dominating the midfield. As fans we want revolution, to turn from no-hopers to contenders overnight, when what we are getting is evolution.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

The Guardian's take on it:

Finally, Aston Villa have begun negotiations with Paul Lambert over an extension to the manager's contract, which expires in 18 months. The talks are expected to begin woefully, then go through a highly encouraging spell before plateauing in a kind of prolonged meh.

[Monty]

I'm sorry Chris, I think you're absolutely right when you say we have to be reactive against the better sides, and that that is actually Lambert's strength. The problem is that we're reactive against absolutely everybody, better, worse, equal, whatever. We have no style, no identity, nothing beyond reacting to what the opposition do, and that approach is useless when what the opposition do is exactly the same - sit deep away from home, force the onus onto the opposition, try to counterattack.

This isn't the kind of thing which managers evolve into this slowly. They don't go from averaging 40% of the ball halfway through their second season to eventually flowering into pass-loving entertainers. Instead, Lambert's true colours are showing more and more over time, namely a reactionary manager who is at best stylistically inconsistent, and at worst a hopeless muddler.

The Guardian's take on it:

Finally, Aston Villa have begun negotiations with Paul Lambert over an extension to the manager's contract, which expires in 18 months. The talks are expected to begin woefully, then go through a highly encouraging spell before plateauing in a kind of prolonged meh.

Quite perceptive that, really.

[Chris Smith]

I don't agree, Monty, I think we have a very clear way of playing against the lesser sides - our problem is that it is very reliant on having our better players available and performing. If, on Saturday, Vlaar, Delph, Gabby and Benteke are all available then I will be confident that we can take the game to West Ham and cause them problems. If not, then it will be another case of shuffling the pack and become a much more difficult encounter.

[Monty]

Chris, I think the point about having a good, consistent style against lesser sides means it's drilled into the entire squad and not reliant on the presence of individual players. You're right in a sense that we play the same way against them: impatiently, directly, narrowly and without any clear sense that anyone on the ball feels comfortable or unjittery for even a moment. If we were going to play a proper game with a bit of intelligence, hard work in training and, dare I say it, modernity (because in no industry in football are the methods of the past so celebrated and recommended so long after their era of usefulness), we would see evidence of it now. In point of fact, the football is getting worse and worse.

[saunders_heroes]

I wonder why the club felt the need to release the news of of the contract talks - do they truly believe it is positive PR stuff to counteract the Sun's takeover story?

[pauliewalnuts]

I wonder why the club felt the need to release the news of of the contract talks - do they truly believe it is positive PR stuff to counteract the Sun's takeover story?

Who says they've released the news?

A journalist found out about it, and went with it. That's not necessarily as a result of them telling him.

It might not even be true.

[Concrete John]

Chris, I think the point about having a good, consistent style against lesser sides means it's drilled into the entire squad and not reliant on the presence of individual players. You're right in a sense that we play the same way against them: impatiently, directly, narrowly and without any clear sense that anyone on the ball feels comfortable or unjittery for even a moment. If we were going to play a proper game with a bit of intelligence, hard work in training and, dare I say it, modernity (because in no industry in football are the methods of the past so celebrated and recommended so long after their era of usefulness), we would see evidence of it now. In point of fact, the football is getting worse and worse.

That's fine in theory, or when you have a large and talented squad, but with us a lack of quality can show through.  We have a poor midfield, which I don't think anyone really disagrees with, yet we're still expecting us to pass through it against competitive PL sides.

Lambert has done some good stuff and some bad stuff so far, but I think next season is the key to seeign where we're going.  Bomb squad gone, decent numbers in the squad, so no excuse not to take that step in quality of recruitment.  And then no excuse to not see something more consistent on the pitch.

[Monty]

Chris, I think the point about having a good, consistent style against lesser sides means it's drilled into the entire squad and not reliant on the presence of individual players. You're right in a sense that we play the same way against them: impatiently, directly, narrowly and without any clear sense that anyone on the ball feels comfortable or unjittery for even a moment. If we were going to play a proper game with a bit of intelligence, hard work in training and, dare I say it, modernity (because in no industry in football are the methods of the past so celebrated and recommended so long after their era of usefulness), we would see evidence of it now. In point of fact, the football is getting worse and worse.

That's fine in theory, or when you have a large and talented squad, but with us a lack of quality can show through.  We have a poor midfield, which I don't think anyone really disagrees with, yet we're still expecting us to pass through it against competitive PL sides.

Lambert has done some good stuff and some bad stuff so far, but I think next season is the key to seeign where we're going.  Bomb squad gone, decent numbers in the squad, so no excuse not to take that step in quality of recruitment.  And then no excuse to not see something more consistent on the pitch.

Michael Laudrup said that you can't teach players to be Messi or Ronaldo, but you can help them pass the ball five yards to each other and move into space - real basics. I actually don't think our midfielders are that bad, they've all showed they can play on occasion (yes, all of them), but there's clearly very little structure in place, no frame of reference for them. It's all done, quite literally, on the hoof.

[saunders_heroes]

I wonder why the club felt the need to release the news of of the contract talks - do they truly believe it is positive PR stuff to counteract the Sun's takeover story?

Who says they've released the news?

A journalist found out about it, and went with it. That's not necessarily as a result of them telling him.

It might not even be true.

Well let's for arguments sake say they did. Why would they think it was good PR to reward a man who has put us through so much humiliation?
They must live on a different planet to the fans.

[Ron Manager]

We play well at Liverpool and on the whole against the Albion and follow it up by playing badly against Everton. It is what it is.

Not exactly, we were set up right against Liverpool and to an extent against West Brom. We were set up too negatively against Everton.

Draw, win, lose. Play very well, play pretty well, play poorly. There is a term for that; "mid-table".

I tried to write something that touched on this - our last three mangers, including THAT one, have all hinted at being able to get far better out of the team than they did/do. All of them have pulled off a great result or two, or shown some signs of playing decent football, only for the next week to invariably resort to dross. We are the Audley Harrison of the Premier League.

Shouldn't you have used Danny Williams  Dave?

Mind you I don't know why people have a go at Audley. Its not as though he's hurt anyone!

Danny Williams made the most of what talents he had. Audley could have done better, and anyone who takes the piss should remember he won Olympic gold and was European champion.

No disputing he had talent Dave but he lacked the drive to get to  top of his profession . But to constantly mouth off and then not back it
up in the ring was not to his credit.

[Clampy]

I wonder why the club felt the need to release the news of of the contract talks - do they truly believe it is positive PR stuff to counteract the Sun's takeover story?

Who says they've released the news?

A journalist found out about it, and went with it. That's not necessarily as a result of them telling him.

It might not even be true.

Well let's for arguments sake say they did. Why would they think it was good PR to reward a man who has put us through so much humiliation?
They must live on a different planet to the fans.

You can't have a go at somebody for assuming they've done something?

[pauliewalnuts]

I wonder why the club felt the need to release the news of of the contract talks - do they truly believe it is positive PR stuff to counteract the Sun's takeover story?

Who says they've released the news?

A journalist found out about it, and went with it. That's not necessarily as a result of them telling him.

It might not even be true.

Well let's for arguments sake say they did. Why would they think it was good PR to reward a man who has put us through so much humiliation?
They must live on a different planet to the fans.

Why does it have to be any form of PR, though?

I am as disillusioned as most people with Lambert this season, I don't want to see us playing an antiquated Pulis-esque long ball game any more than you or anyone else does, but it is hardly beyond the bounds of believability that they (and lots of other people) think he's doing a good job.