Der Hammer

[Chris Smith]

Trying to protect his pundit career then. What Fowler did whether Le Saux was gay or not gay was sickening and I thought so at the time.

Der Hammer didnt have to go through what Le Saux did. And he wasnt gay. Fowler should be kicked off the BBC with immense haste.

A cynic may suggest he apologised just to protect his new job as a pundit on the BBC.

Maybe, but if Le Saux can accept it as genuine then perhaps we should too.

[taylorsworkrate]

I see the ex Blues player Michael Johnson has quit an FA advisory panel on anti discrimination because it came to light that just last year he claimed he wouldn't back an FA anti homophobia initiative because he found homosexuality "despicable".  Yet he's got the nerve to say he'll still carry on his work on anti discrimination.
The mind boggles!

In fairness, he's saying his opinions have now changed, which if true is great. It wouldn't be a bad thing if all bigots suddenly saw the light.

[peter w]

The thing that saddened me the most listening to him speak was that his Brummie accent has gone. Traitor.

[Mortimer's Bear]

I never liked Le Saux as a player but that is a truly moving article.

[Matt Collins]

Great article that Le Saux one. Not least because I suspect many people will have thrown comments like that players without 'really' meaning it, not really knowing how horrible is must feel.
I know for my shame I used to join in the chants to john Fashanu about his brother. And I'm not homophobic at all. But as le saux said you'd never dream of doing similarly about a black player

I'm glad I've grown up now. And hopefully we've moved on but there's still a long way to go clearly

[olaftab]

Fair play PC
I'm gay myself, but play football, get involved in active stuff. I've learned to turn a blind eye to humorous quips, and can take a joke. Hopefully one day things will improve. The church don't help, as demonstrated in your post, the hypocritical bastards.
It's affected my life, as I'm not sure I've accepted it, but hey ho. I just try to get on with travel and other stuff.
Very pleasing to read so many mature posts on here, fair play to you all :-)

The thing is O_V the acid test is if in a gathering of non gay people a quip remark is made would people  there have the courage to say out of order? When that happens then the war is won. Same applies to racist stuff that people should be prepared to challenge and it's not always white on dark.

The religious angle bewilders me most. Alex apparently  said God created Adam and Eve for a reason and religious view is that we are all created by the almighty if so then he/she also created Thomas.  Why don't they accept that?

[peter w]

The thing that saddened me the most listening to him speak was that his Brummie accent has gone. Traitor.

Sorry. seems I'm the only one still talking about Tommy. As you were.

[olaftab]

I like to think that, in general, H&V has a more accepting and mature membership than most football forums. I feel we've proved that over many years and many debates.

This is correct Mr Cooper and I think yourself and likes of Mr Woodhall set a very good example. (even though he does sound like a bit of an autocrat)

[lordmcgrath5]

Saw this posted on facebook yesterday, very interesting read
http://reflectionsasia.wordpress.com/2007/09/11/graeme-le-saux-how-gay-slurs-almost-wrecked-my-career/

Robbie Fowler really is a disgusting individual, the same applies to Robbie Savage. I'd love for someone to pull the latter up for it on his 606 phone in show.

And so say all of us.

[PeterWithe]

Can they not change, mature, and accept their behaviour was unacceptable? It would be a sad day if we were all condemned forever for actions or opinions we'd left behind.

[rob_bridge]

Saw this posted on facebook yesterday, very interesting read
http://reflectionsasia.wordpress.com/2007/09/11/graeme-le-saux-how-gay-slurs-almost-wrecked-my-career/

Crikey, that's a pretty moving read.

It's astonishing isn't it? Some of those Le Saux has mentioned are now high profile pundits, Savage and Fowler for instance, they need to be bought up on this I reckon.

And Townsend too. Hope he has apologised for stupidity.

Savage was a headless chicken bellend WUM. Fowler just an obnoxious Scally Scumbag - never ever as good as he or the media thought he was.

[rob_bridge]

Can they not change, mature, and accept their behaviour was unacceptable? It would be a sad day if we were all condemned forever for actions or opinions we'd left behind.

They certainly can after 15 years. Have they? It seems Fowler doesn't think he did anything wrong anyway. Why should he?

[eamonn]

Not yet read the Le Saux piece but what was the reason for oiks like Fowler to make fun of him - because he was educated and read the Guardian or something?
Fowler shouldn't even be on MOTD. His "analysis" is by far the poorest of any of their pundits. I thought Hamann especially showed him up and even Lineker the other day when the two were waxing lyrical about Yaya Toure's goalscoring record while Hamann pointed out all the times he goes missing when Citeh don't have the ball. Nice to see someone clearly qualified to talk about the game and not just pander to popular perceptions.

[eamonn]

The thing that saddened me the most listening to him speak was that his Brummie accent has gone. Traitor.

Sorry. seems I'm the only one still talking about Tommy. As you were.

You were grumbling as per. People's accents and sexualities sometimes change, just gotta to accept it innit.

[Toronto Villa]

That article reveals a colossal failure at every level. From teammates through to the FA not one person stood up for him and everyone happily piled on. It makes you look at yourself as well and over the years what you might have considered as a bit of a laugh when in fact is derogatory and shameful. We've all probably been a bit immature, I certainly include myself in that. I hope that nobody I know has ever resorted to that kind of abuse or come remotely close to it.

It does make you wonder where it comes from? Where does it say it is acceptable to say or do those things? And when should someone take a stand, or take a stand on someone else's behalf? A lot of it is brushed aside as the culture within the game. Old views that have not progressed, be it players or managers or FA suits. Look at what Ron Atkinson was caught saying off camera. It wouldn't have been the first time he'll have used that language, maybe the first time he got caught. There's also a case in progress in the NFL involving two Miami Dolphins players where one is accused of bullying the other. It likely happens at some level in every sport and quite possibly as much as it does in everyday society.

I'm glad Le Saux found the strength to talk about this and I hope in some way it has helped over the years to improve matters. I'm also glad he called out the wankers like Savage, Fowler, Ince and even our former captain Townsend for being the weak minded men that they are. Very sad really.