The Myth of our youth policy

[KevinGage]

Sorry, I don't see how a player can start a 'career' at seven years of age. Or ten, for that matter. Unless we're talking about that weird Solskjaer lookalike who appeared on Wogan years ago, claiming to be an antique dealer.

They might show promise, or be under the radar, but so much can change between then and the age of 15/16.

So much can happen even between the age of 16/20, that's when players get their first real taste of professional coaching. If it's sub standard, a player with promise can soon hit a plateau and never progress. 

For that reason, I'd say Barry was a product of our youth system and Hart was a product of Citeh's. Even if other clubs (Brighton and Shrewsbury respectively) played a key part in their development too.

[richardhubbard]

He made the bench above him this weekend

[Clampy]

He made the bench above him this weekend

So did Albrighton.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make but it's coming across as a bit of a pointless one so i'll leave it at that.

[richardhubbard]

That not appearing good enough to make our bench!

[SheffieldVillain]

That not appearing good enough to make our bench!

He's been out injured for months and months and is being eased back into the first team picture.

[SoccerHQ]

One of the best we've produced could end up well being Jamie Ward who is currently ripping it up for Derby in the championship and I think even if they don't get promoted will be in the premier league next year.

I was talking to a friend about him the other day as his dad coached him for a youth team in the hodge hill area when he was about 12-13.

Pretty sure when he was with us we played him midfield or even left back?

[Matt Collins]

I often make this point but I don't think it gets picked up

I feel that one of our disadvantages is that the local area has tended to punch under its weight in terms of developing players. London, Liverpool, greater Manchester and Newcastle all produce lots of players and some outstanding ones. Birmingham doesn't seem to as much. Just think about players with scouse accents over the last decade or more: Gerrard Rooney Owen Barkley baines carragher fowler mcmanaman

[Matt Collins]

On Gardner, I've never really seen that he's got what it takes

But you'd think the examples of Delph and Ramsay would be enough to convince people that they need to give the guy a really good chance of making it. I think a year or so of fitness, starting from now. I'd give him a year contract extension to do it in

[supertom]

What's really helped Rooney and now Barkley for example was the fact they were thrown in very young and had the talent to make it. There comes a point where early promise can start stagnating if players get a taste and then suddenly find themselves not given the time to develop quickly. I think Fonzy should have been handled far better by O Neill because that boy had talent to burn. But the O Neill way is to not really use substitutions unless he has to. Even at times when the Fonz notched an appearence in the Prem, it would be 5 minutes.

Even in games we'd have comfortably won, ideal opportunity to give the lad 20 minutes, and it wouldn't happen. The rest of the time he wasn't even on the bench. No space among all the overpaid mediocrity. Had O Neill gone about things the right way he'd have had 2-3 youngens on his bench most games, to allow the opportunity to bed them in and develop for the future. Bannan had way more natural ability than dross like Sidwell for example.

We're now seeing the likes of Johnson, Robinson and Grealish etc all edging in and around that 20 mark. When they're not having the odd month or two on loan they need to be in and around the first team. In terms of technique, we've got a number of very gifted players coming through. But we need to look at the examples of Bannan and Fonzie. They had talent but I don't think they were handled quite right. Getting a sniff in the Europa and pre-season tournaments gave them a taste but they needed better bedding in. They also didn't need to get paid so handsomely, so soon. Its strange to me though because O Neill really rate Fonzie but he barely played him in the Premiership. Ditto Bannan. Very well thought of at the club 4=5 years ago. We were all impressed with Alby after the peace cup and expected him to be broken in the following season. It didn't really happen. 6 appearances in all.

Get the lads in and get them playing. We need a bit more ability and if our youth team isn't producing players with more ability than KEA, Sylla, Tonev, Bowery etc, it really does have problems. I don't buy into this too soon thing. If they're good enough, they'll shine, even in a faltering side. Davis was really good for us under O Leary, despite the side being poor. His career went downward when O Neill took over and Davis could only ever get a game playing wide. Bed them in and in conjunction with that, give them the odd month or two out on loan alongside that. But there's no good waiting 2-3 years to get Grealish in the side for example. Get him in now, see how he handles it. In 2-3 years his development might have been stilted, or someone else younger might steal his thunder a little, and his chance.

[Matt Collins]

I actually disagree with that. Barkley and Janusaj are making an impact because they're prodigious talents. I don't see that tells us we should be playing grealish

My view is almost the opposite: if you look at Cahill, Whittingham, Davis, ridgewell, clark, these are all guys who haven't looked at home in the premier league until they're at least 23. So I don't buy the argument that if you've not made it by 21 it's game over.

[supertom]

I actually disagree with that. Barkley and Janusaj are making an impact because they're prodigious talents. I don't see that tells us we should be playing grealish

My view is almost the opposite: if you look at Cahill, Whittingham, Davis, ridgewell, clark, these are all guys who haven't looked at home in the premier league until they're at least 23. So I don't buy the argument that if you've not made it by 21 it's game over.

It helps if you've been kept in and around first team football. In one regard Lambert is going about it right, giving Grealish time out on loan at his age.
Whilst we're such a young side we can probably afford to player 2-3 more of our own young lads. I think Cahills development was helped greatly by playing at 20 in the first team. He didn't always have the best of times granted, but he's better for it I think. Particularly getting thrown in somewhat during a very tough period under DOL.
Johnson for example is passed that age. If he's not playing now he probably needs to be. It isn't game over at 21 no, but every passing year just makes it more unlikely that he'll make the grade.

I think in part at the moment it's also for want of quality in our midfield and attacking areas. We're really lacking in guile and we appear to be raising a youth side that has a good amount of that quality. I'd get 2-3 of them more directly involved, to help their development but also because some of the players in the matchday squad are way off being good enough. Again it boils down to would I rather have Robinson/Johnson/Grealish on the bench, or Jordan Bowery? It's an easy answer for me.

I also think Roon was helped greatly breaking into the Prem at a time he still had so much raw enthusiasm and ability, that may have been tempered by sitting in the ressies/youth side for another 3-4 years until he was in his early 20's. He may not have been the player he is now without that early development. We can only dream of producing a talent like that granted, but if we're producing potentially premier league players then why not play them? Johnson is 21 now. Robbo is 19 soon.
I'll always wonder how much better Delfouneso and Bannan might be right now had they been handled better 5 years ago when they were becoming part of O Neills plans. He gave players a little sniff, they generally quite impressed but then he took them out again. Then bizarrely we gave them enough money to suggest they were the finished article. Sadly they didn't work hard enough at that point. Bannan is a better footballer than anyone we currently have in midfield. Who knows how good he'd be now with more time under is belt in O Neills side and being kept more grounded. It's down to his own (questionnable) attitude too of course, but he should have been handled better.

[Duncan Shaw]

I know it's early days, but Pulis seems to be getting the best from him.

[Mister E]

I know it's early days, but Pulis seems to be getting the best from him.

And I think it was the move that probably caused him to get his head sorted out; he'd been around VP almost too long (familiarity bred contempt, in a way) and none of our revolving-door managers had got hold of him and get him grounded, focussed and effective ... or so it seems.

[supertom]

I know it's early days, but Pulis seems to be getting the best from him.

And I think it was the move that probably caused him to get his head sorted out; he'd been around VP almost too long (familiarity bred contempt, in a way) and none of our revolving-door managers had got hold of him and get him grounded, focussed and effective ... or so it seems.

I'd guess possibly that he might have taken a pay cut to join Palace too. Indeed, Pulis is a good motivator and he'll get Bannan to work hard. We shall see though. Still early days, he can't rest on his laurels again.

[Clampy]

I really liked Bannan. I'd have persevered with him for another season but that said, the move away will probably be good for him in the long run.