Lambert's Vision for Villa

[Monty]

All about opinions I suppose.  I think we need more dominance, more experience in the side.  At the minute we kick the opposition a lot, we are top of the cautions league apparently, yet we don't retain possession. I think Lambert has an over-reliance on crap players.

I agree that we kick them a lot, but the only thing which would improve if we went with more physical players is we'd kick them more effectively. If we had players with better technique (or possibly, more possession-based training like Swansea) we'd have more of the ball and have to kick fewer people.

[Toronto Villa]

I'm pretty sure Lambert's vision for the club isn't what it has become. That the players he bought in the summer have on the whole been a disappointment coupled with key players losing form and getting injured. I'm sure that as a club they felt that the players they added would strengthen a squad that had done rather well in the second half of last season and would only get better and stronger. He has to be disappointed on so many levels with how it has transpired.

What he now must have realised is that the recent strategy of low price options simply cannot be an exclusive one. That it must be integrated more steadily and that quality and experience are essential. These players, the incumbents and the new are not bad players, but they need help from those who are both proven and established. That means paying a bit more which the club needs to accept while still trying to rid the contracts of the obvious players who have been deemed surplus to requirements.

Lambert's vision will come to fruition a lot faster if he accepts that he needs to approach this with some flexibility and understands that January represents a really critical time in his tenure to turn this around and get it right.

[Clampy]

I'm pretty sure Lambert's vision for the club isn't what it has become. That the players he bought in the summer have on the whole been a disappointment coupled with key players losing form and getting injured. I'm sure that as a club they felt that the players they added would strengthen a squad that had done rather well in the second half of last season and would only get better and stronger. He has to be disappointed on so many levels with how it has transpired.

What he now must have realised is that the recent strategy of low price options simply cannot be an exclusive one. That it must be integrated more steadily and that quality and experience are essential. These players, the incumbents and the new are not bad players, but they need help from those who are both proven and established. That means paying a bit more which the club needs to accept while still trying to rid the contracts of the obvious players who have been deemed surplus to requirements.

Lambert's vision will come to fruition a lot faster if he accepts that he needs to approach this with some flexibility and understands that January represents a really critical time in his tenure to turn this around and get it right.

This.

[eastie]

You have to have the right blend of  experience with young players , that is pretty obvious to everyone and lambert shouldn't really be waiting until his 4th window to address this but lets hope that this time he does bring in some quality and experience , whether permanent or on loan - it has to be done.

[Villa in Denmark]

Michael Laudrups name has cropped up a couple of times on the and then who  thread. There's a whole host of reasons why it won't be him, whenever Lambert vacates the hot seat, but there's a quote of his, apparently from an interview with ESPN last August which I thought was really apt while we're talking about vision and playing style.
"You can't ask players to do things that Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi are doing, but you can ask the easy things" he said. "Sometimes the easiest things in football, a simple pass five or eight yards, can be the most effective. That, everybody can learn."

And that I think is all we're asking for.

[cdward]

From Pravda:

Paul Lambert insists Villa's top trio - including Randy Lerner and Paul Faulkner - have a shared vision for the future of Villa.


He stressed that he knew when he took over little over 18 months ago that it wasn't going to be a quick-fix, a belief held by the chairman and chief executive too.

....That's what we have done.

"We have taken it right back. I have been supported in it by Randy and Paul.

".... Myself, Randy and Paul know exactly what is going on.

...... You have to start somewhere and lay a brick. That's what we have done.

"We have a plan......

"We're trying to build the club.....

"..... we are evolving and developing as a squad.

"We believe in what we're doing and trust one another within the group.

".....the setbacks we face along the way....

"In terms of support, Randy has been excellent. He's been great with me."

This is definitely written for him. All the references to "we" and mentioning Randy and Faulkner. This is basically telling the fans to quieten down as Lambert is going nowhere. Lambert is doing what Randy and Faulkner want. The plan is to make AVFC the franchise more profitable. This is being achieved. This statement is just to quell the murmurings from the fans.
We as fans are the only ones not making money from this franchise.
This has nothing to do with tactics, teams, trophies, ambition, developing youth, etc.
This is modern football.

[Billy Walker]

I normally post more on another site and on that site one particular poster is holding on for dear life concerning his opinion on Lambert.

He has spent most of this season with the exception of the last few games (obviously) defending Lambert with the 'but we've more points at this stage than last season).

Since that points tally has closed to one he has now reverted to the wage v performance debate.

What he is stating is that we cannot expect any better from our players because (and this has been confirmed by a validated ITK) that the majority of our new players are earning no more than between 5k-15k per week. That may shock some of you and it may not but that is Championship wages and you can see how the poster's debate could be validated.

However, although Lambert's remit was to reduce the wage bill, my argument has always been with this particular poster did he need to be so abrupt in using the guillotine on the players that were already here before Lambert started his tenure with us and has Lambert's signings improved us in any position on the pitch while spending another reported 43m?

Could we have used Bent more rather than spending 4m-7m on Kozak and could we have used Hutton instead of the dross we have now at FB. Could we have got more out of Ireland which Hughes is now doing at Stoke and is Westwood really any better than Bannan?

Of course the issue has been wages but why buy Helenius if on a limited budget and why purchase Tonev when we had Albrighton. What was the point of purchasing Bowery who gives his all but is quite obviously very limited in ability when we had the Fonz and I could go on.

Very poor allocation of a limited budget and this has been Lambert's choice.

Benteke and Vlaar however have been cracking purchases but the other 14 players that Lambert has signed have been poor even just on a squad basis.

It pains me to say this but we now have the worst squad of players I have ever seen in my forty years as a Villa fan. Absolutely no quality or balance in midfield and we're much too static all over the pitch giving the player in possession few alternatives to pass to. That is down to the manager and his coaches who must in training place the player's feet in bags of cement to stop passes going astray. I have never seen such a lack of movement from any Villa team before and it infuriates me as even in my school days, alas too far away now, my P.E Teacher instructed us all to pass and move to create space and alternatives to pass to.

We did do this to great effect last season against Sunderland and I mistakenly thought it was the beginning of a new dawn for us. Alas that dawn has proven to be false and Lambert cannot continue to live on the memories of that game or his signing of Benteke.

If our poor form continues and Lambert is eventually sacked (please God) what do you think any new manager coming in will do with the present squad?

Personally i feel we'll have yet another bomb squad to get rid of apart from the two aforementioned players and that i fear is going to be Paul Lambert's legacy.     

In your opinion. 

My view would be that we are eighteen months into totally restructuring the club on a very tightly controlled budget.  Whilst, admittedly, we are currently in a run of shocking form we are still in a position to improve on last year's league finish and build again.



Reading other posts here and on other forums it's interesting to observe a set a pattern of responses every time Villa reach a "crisis".  Some people will start resorting to personally insulting the management staff, some will claim the dressing room has been lost, some will claim the players are unfit and never do any training and so on and so on and so on... We've had three years of this type of in the know tittle-tattle that serves no purpose other than to create instability in the club and a sense of turmoil.  Who starts these rumours and "ITK" posts?  Rival fans pretending to be Villa supporters?  Journalists trying to create a story?  I've no idea, but it's amazing that for the best part of three (maybe four) managerial regimes this same pattern of ITK bullshit emerges when we hit a run of poor results.

Lambert hasn't suddenly become DiCanio overnight and he certainly hasn't morphed into David O'Leary on the back of four defeats.  As far as I can see he is the same manager who our away support serenaded at the end of the 11-12 season and he's the very same manager who, for a number of years,  quietly and steadily built up a reputation for himself as being one of the brightest young managers in the game.

People will say:   Look at Rodgers, look at Martinez and see what gifted young managers can really do.  Fair enough, but Rodgers is in a position where he can offer a 200k a week salary for his star player and Martinez walked into a job where a top six squad was already in place.  Lambert is in a completely different position and I genuinely can't think of many managers out there who could turn around our club given the financial restraints.  He needs more time than eighteen months - let's see where we are at the end of the season.

[Ad@m]

People will say:   Look at Rodgers, look at Martinez and see what gifted young managers can really do.  Fair enough, but Rodgers is in a position where he can offer a 200k a week salary for his star player and Martinez walked into a job where a top six squad was already in place.  Lambert is in a completely different position and I genuinely can't think of many managers out there who could turn around our club given the financial restraints.  He needs more time than eighteen months - let's see where we are at the end of the season.

Worth pointing out aswell that Rodgers took over a club which finished 8th in the season before he took over, spent £60m (excluding wages) to get them to finish 7th last year and has spent another £50m (again, excluding wages) this year and they're currently 5th, only two points ahead of 7th and with both teams below them in better current form.

[Mister E]

... People will say:   Look at Rodgers, look at Martinez and see what gifted young managers can really do.  Fair enough, but Rodgers is in a position where he can offer a 200k a week salary for his star player and Martinez walked into a job where a top six squad was already in place.  Lambert is in a completely different position and I genuinely can't think of many managers out there who could turn around our club given the financial restraints.  He needs more time than eighteen months - let's see where we are at the end of the season.

I like your voice-of-reason approach.

Both Martinez and Rodgers moved to clubs that had had reasonable stability. Taking Martinez particularly, what he did in August was very sensible: he had a mixed squad of young and more experienced players and he supplemented that with Gazza Bazza and Lukaku. Presumably, the logic was that if they do well this season, they might either purchase these loanees or be able to afford similar purchases as a result of the success. If not a succcessful season, these two willl return to their club and the younger Eveton squad players will have had a further 12 months' development time. It's a win-win.

I'm disappointed that Lambert has not taken a similar approach (and also that he has not used the loan system more extensively for our kids).

[Witton Warrior]

From Pravda:

Paul Lambert insists Villa's top trio - including Randy Lerner and Paul Faulkner - have a shared vision for the future of Villa.


He stressed that he knew when he took over little over 18 months ago that it wasn't going to be a quick-fix, a belief held by the chairman and chief executive too.

....That's what we have done.

"We have taken it right back. I have been supported in it by Randy and Paul.

".... Myself, Randy and Paul know exactly what is going on.

...... You have to start somewhere and lay a brick. That's what we have done.

"We have a plan......

"We're trying to build the club.....

"..... we are evolving and developing as a squad.

"We believe in what we're doing and trust one another within the group.

".....the setbacks we face along the way....

"In terms of support, Randy has been excellent. He's been great with me."

This is definitely written for him. All the references to "we" and mentioning Randy and Faulkner. This is basically telling the fans to quieten down as Lambert is going nowhere. Lambert is doing what Randy and Faulkner want. The plan is to make AVFC the franchise more profitable. This is being achieved. This statement is just to quell the murmurings from the fans.
We as fans are the only ones not making money from this franchise.
This has nothing to do with tactics, teams, trophies, ambition, developing youth, etc.
This is modern football.

Not a bad summary cdward

So basically "like it or lump it" then? Sounds about right.

If "lump it" means no season ticket* next year if this drivel continues I hope the owner "likes it"

*Unless we are relegated as I am an idiot

[Monty]

Rodgers and Martinez showed that ability to play decent football at clubs on much tighter budgets than ours, and have shown it wasn't a fluke when walking into these big jobs. They also didn't have nothing to do when they took over: neither Moyes' nor Dalglish's played the most up-to-date football, yet a bit of tweaking and those sides are now two of the best possession sides in the league.

[eastie]

Rodgers and Martinez showed that ability to play decent football at clubs on much tighter budgets than ours, and have shown it wasn't a fluke when walking into these big jobs. They also didn't have nothing to do when they took over: neither Moyes' nor Dalglish's played the most up-to-date football, yet a bit of tweaking and those sides are now two of the best possession sides in the league.

That's true, a workmate of mine is an Evertonian of over 40 yrs and goes regularly - he says the football this season is far better to watch than under moyes .

[Pat McMahon]

All about opinions I suppose.  I think we need more dominance, more experience in the side.  At the minute we kick the opposition a lot, we are top of the cautions league apparently, yet we don't retain possession. I think Lambert has an over-reliance on crap players.

I agree that we kick them a lot, but the only thing which would improve if we went with more physical players is we'd kick them more effectively. If we had players with better technique (or possibly, more possession-based training like Swansea) we'd have more of the ball and have to kick fewer people.

Montbert, I don't necessarily agree with that. If we had more physical players I think we would be stronger when not in possession. I think KEA, Westwood and Delph all try hard but are too easily brushed aside leading to chances for opponents or yellow cards for our lads. Sometimes a physical player can simply put their body between the opponent, hold them off the ball and win / retain possession without needing to tackle. A physical player isn't necessarily lacking in skill either - Keane, Viera, Essien, Toure....

[Monty]

All about opinions I suppose.  I think we need more dominance, more experience in the side.  At the minute we kick the opposition a lot, we are top of the cautions league apparently, yet we don't retain possession. I think Lambert has an over-reliance on crap players.

I agree that we kick them a lot, but the only thing which would improve if we went with more physical players is we'd kick them more effectively. If we had players with better technique (or possibly, more possession-based training like Swansea) we'd have more of the ball and have to kick fewer people.

Montbert, I don't necessarily agree with that. If we had more physical players I think we would be stronger when not in possession. I think KEA, Westwood and Delph all try hard but are too easily brushed aside leading to chances for opponents or yellow cards for our lads. Sometimes a physical player can simply put their body between the opponent, hold them off the ball and win / retain possession without needing to tackle. A physical player isn't necessarily lacking in skill either - Keane, Viera, Essien, Toure....

No, but like Yaya Toure if you get a physical beast who's also good at football he tends to cost £40m-odd. If we want to play good football then unless we find more Benteke-style gems we have to mostly choose between valuing physicality or technique.

[claret and blue blood]

Before the Swansea game it was obvious that the club really don't want to sack Lambert.
I said that the best we can hope for ( apart from putting our frustration aside and getting behind the team best described in the way we did last season against QPR ) is for Lambert to learn the hard lesson of the last few games and be more flexible.The total reliance on untried young players was too much one way, he must now (and quickly) inject some proven quality and experience in the team, left back, centre back and defensive midfield  ( if we won more balls and kept possesion the attacking players will score more goals. What goes on at Bodymoor must be reviewed also as we all know the basics seem too much for us at the moment.Finally Lerner has to make the funds available for those players or do the decent thing, come clean and put the "for sale " sign up .

Hoping for a positive outcome whilst praying hard at the same time

UTV