Aston Villa v Manchester United Post-Match Thread

[tomd2103]

It's going to take a good level of investment over 3 years to turn us into anything like a premiership club & I see no sign of that coming.

The next 3-4 weeks are crucial, we might pick up a few points but if we do I'm not being fooled by it. We could just as easily pick up none. People talk about us being a mid table club or that we are in transition, bollocks. Lambert is doing what he can with the instructions to cut the wages & the limited money he's been given. 

Mr Lerner, we are heading one way only unless we buy some quality. FFS do something before the life is sucked out of our club.

Have to disagree slightly with that.  One or two good purchases in key positions (full back and attacking midfield) and a return to form for some of our current players (mainly Gabby, Benteke and Weimann) and we'd comfortably be a top ten side.  One of the main problems is that the options in the squad to cover injuries and loss of form aren't good enough at the moment.   

[PeterWithesShin]

Bacuna didn't come from the reserves. He played over 100 league games and only recently turned 22. 30 odd games for them last season.

[Mister E]

Fair and accurate dissection of our defensive play today by Mills and Lawro on MOTD2.

Yes I saw that but they did not acknowledge anything that Sylla did to stop passes, which is what I saw, today. Sorry, he may have not got everything right but there were numerous times he cut off a move that was aimed to go straight past him, and I cheered that every time.
I think there may be easier targets.

I'm afraid I saw Sylla being taken to the cleaners by Rafael for the first goal, a far-post header woefully off-target and a edge-of-the box curled shot that threatened the lower-Holte occupants.
He was poor today - as he has been for most of the season - and should not have started ahead of Bacuna.
His presence on the left compounded the problems we were having with Luna and Baker being so inept.

But - after a night's sleep - I'd say that "we are where we are" and PL has to find ways of making better use of the squad of players that he has: (i) playing further up the pitch would be one good start; (ii) using players like Herd, Bacuna, Daniel Johnson and ALbrighton in MF would seem to give us more energy and bite than KEA and Sylla; (iii) finding some variety to come off the bench would be good, to change things rather than just change players; (iv) stop expecting Baker and Guzan to deliver the ball from the back (as soon as they have the ball, it becomes 50:50 possession rather than 100% possession); (v) get Gabby and Benteke to hold the ball up a little more, to give us a chance of attacking in numbers.

[Damo70]

I'm still a Lambert fan (just about) but we were shit again today. Sylla has been found out, Luna is shocking, Baker a last resort, Kea is shite, Westwood a passenger. Please don't get me started on 'The Beast.'

The thing is:

Sylla came from the French second division less than a year ago.
Westwood came from Crewe Alexandra, League One, a little over a year ago
Luna came from Sevilla reserves for a paltry amount of money
KEA came from being average in a league which is renowned for making players look better than they are
Lowton came from League One
Joe Bennett came from League One
Bowery came from League Two
Tonev came from looking OKish in Poland
Bacuna came from Groeningen's reserves

There's a recurrent theme here - they're all cheap purchases, they'll all be on comparatively low wages, and none of them have consistently played at the top level.

There are nine names there.  Surely the combined fees and wages spent on those nine would have been better used bringing in three more established players?

We tried that with Given, Hutton and N'Zogbia.

[Damo70]

Fair and accurate dissection of our defensive play today by Mills and Lawro on MOTD2.

Sadly I have to agree with you Aftab.

No, really.
How is Lawro suddenly believable this week?
He never has been, before.
I know it wasn't the best Villa performance but I find this acceptance of Lawro's assessment worrying. I hope it is momentary.

Monkeys and typewriters.

[brontebilly]

I'm still a Lambert fan (just about) but we were shit again today. Sylla has been found out, Luna is shocking, Baker a last resort, Kea is shite, Westwood a passenger. Please don't get me started on 'The Beast.'

The thing is:

Sylla came from the French second division less than a year ago.
Westwood came from Crewe Alexandra, League One, a little over a year ago
Luna came from Sevilla reserves for a paltry amount of money
KEA came from being average in a league which is renowned for making players look better than they are
Lowton came from League One
Joe Bennett came from League One
Bowery came from League Two
Tonev came from looking OKish in Poland
Bacuna came from Groeningen's reserves

There's a recurrent theme here - they're all cheap purchases, they'll all be on comparatively low wages, and none of them have consistently played at the top level.

It's not like there are no signs telling us they're going to struggle. That's what happened last season, to those who were here, and that is what is happening this season.

It seems a foolhardly policy to push on with so many players who aren't experienced at this level of football, and we're now starting to see that it's really, really hard to play at the top level, and a lot of them plainly can't do it.

Some of them can't do it yet and might go on to do so, but it seems to me to be a tad dangerous to just assume that they just need time to bed in and then they're going to come good.

Kea and Bennett cost a few quid didnt they?

Lambert had clearly scouted Kea for a long time, pre Villa. Bennett to me seemed a panic signing, we were really after Cresswell and Bennett seemed number two choice. Boro fans were far from enamoured with him and he was physically nowhere near ready for the step up.

Sometimes signings work out and sometimes they dont. What is deeply flawed in the Lambert/Lerner approach is not supplementing these players with solid experienced pro's like Gareth Barry and others that could do a short term job for us but assist in the development of the younger players too. The ability to be able to bring the likes of Westwood out of the firing line is sadly missing at the moment due to a lack of options which might cause him more harm than good long term.

To be honest in the list above, I would have hopes for Westwood, Lowton and Bacuna making the grade. Already I'm afraid Tonev and Sylla look like lost causes. The rest are nowhere near good enough.

[Damo70]

Ferguson makes a lot of sense in his book about the gamble you take signing cheaper players. When he was at Aberdeen on a tight budget he actually signed very few players, preferring to save his pennies and target a few that would almost certainly improve the team.

[Legion]

A Savage analysis

[MONCABA]

I'm still a Lambert fan (just about) but we were shit again today. Sylla has been found out, Luna is shocking, Baker a last resort, Kea is shite, Westwood a passenger. Please don't get me started on 'The Beast.'

The thing is:

Sylla came from the French second division less than a year ago.
Westwood came from Crewe Alexandra, League One, a little over a year ago
Luna came from Sevilla reserves for a paltry amount of money
KEA came from being average in a league which is renowned for making players look better than they are
Lowton came from League One
Joe Bennett came from League One
Bowery came from League Two
Tonev came from looking OKish in Poland
Bacuna came from Groeningen's reserves

There's a recurrent theme here - they're all cheap purchases, they'll all be on comparatively low wages, and none of them have consistently played at the top level.

It's not like there are no signs telling us they're going to struggle. That's what happened last season, to those who were here, and that is what is happening this season.

It seems a foolhardly policy to push on with so many players who aren't experienced at this level of football, and we're now starting to see that it's really, really hard to play at the top level, and a lot of them plainly can't do it.

Some of them can't do it yet and might go on to do so, but it seems to me to be a tad dangerous to just assume that they just need time to bed in and then they're going to come good.

Brilliant post.

[baddowvillans]

Will catch up on the other comments soon but for me we managed to do something no other team has achieved this season - make a poor Manure side look like Champions Champions league winners!

Every home game is a 350 mile round trip for me, ple make ty of time to focus on the positives but I am getting weary of being let down by players who I can accept are good enough but cant accept lack of effort

These are all now Lamberts players and whilst I think there is some potential in there overall we are mediocre. Did the wrong Midlands manager get sacked this weekend?  That depends on our ambition. Clearly WBA have some but im not sure we do. I dont accept its a project because if it is we have the wrong man leading it. On the other hand if we have no money to give a new manager as Fulham, Palace and WBA will do we just have to stick with Lambert. Three "Cup Ginals" before the year end will tell whether I am just feeling hungover this morning!

[Witton Warrior]

So many posts saying its so predictable, yet going on as if you're shocked.

We lost to Manchester United. It's what we do.

Please move on.

It's not the defeat amfy - it's the manner of the defeat

Really?

So you've not seen better Villa sides than this throw away 2 goal leads?

The best thing I heard today was someone say at half time 'Cheer up - it could be worse, we could be 2 goals up!'

There was nothing in the manner of this defeat that was worse than previous years. We came out fighting, we'd had 3 shots in target before their first attack where they scored from a strike off the post that fell straight to one of theirs - of course. They're in a bad run but no-one was kidding themselves before KO that we had a better team.

A couple of injuries will hurt us more than half a dozen of theirs for a few years yet. (at least)

This is where we are, you can choose to carry on being angry about it every week or accept that this is your team. They're not the European Champions - that was 30 years ago. They're not the team that won the FA Cup the most times because we haven't won it since 1957.

This is your team Aston Villa 2013. You can get behind them if you like.

My own view is that despite the result this was be of our better home performances this year. Loads better than Sunderland. This isn't a fixture I particularly expect anything from. Maybe last week, before they'd already lost 2 in a row & before Delph's suspension I may have had some hope , but look at the re-match thread - who genuinely saw anything else here?

I preferred last year's match to this year - it was exciting. That may be shallow but there you go.
We played for 15 minutes and had three relatively tame shots from distance - I was enjoying myself at this point.

I know this is Aston Villa 2013 and I still turn up week after week - I have an opinion as to what I see on the pitch just like when I go to the cinema and pay to see a film.

I expected us to lose but I would love to be proved wrong once in a while.

Thought the performance against Everton was the best thing so far.

[Mister E]

A Savage analysis

Hate to say it but he's pretty much summed up the issues.

[Ads]

I thought we were very bright for 15 minutes, but goals change games. Man United might not be the force they were, but they’re still a top six side, so if you gift them two goals as we did, then you’re going to struggle.

I was pleased with how well Albrighton performed. He was very direct and full of purpose; good on him.

The issue we had in my opinion was similar to the previous week with long diagonals targeting a full back, with Valencia pressed right on Luna, with no cover from Gabby. Rooney was putting in some excellent balls from deep and our midfield wasn’t pressing them enough to stop the supply.

I came home and saw Liverpool squeeze and press the life out of Tottenham and wish we could have done the same.

I think the midfield is two players light; we need an attacking player for certain. When we do have the ball wide, there is often acres and acres of space in the midfield where nobody seems to go and occupy. I think it makes it far too easy for the opposition to keep their shape, as there are no midfield runners pulling people out of position or even being ready to receive the ball in the final third.

I also think we need a defensive midfielder who is physically capable of dominating the game. Too many players just don’t seem to be up to it thus far. In fairness to Sylla, he was playing second division football in France last season.

It’s a pity we have our third and fourth choice centre halves playing again at this time of year; Clark I think has developed, but there is always a mistake in them.

We have three games now where we need to be targeting 7 points, 5 at the least and then we can move on in January and see if the elusive midfielders can be turned up from somewhere to help us click again.

[Damo70]

A Savage analysis

Hate to say it but he's pretty much summed up the issues.

Depressing. Almost a case of give Villa the ball and they save you the trouble of doing it yourselves and will set something up for you.

[Dave Clark Five]

Where the fuck is N'Zogbia ? What on earth is going on down the villa ?

Injured but, judging by his shirt number, never likely to play again very often even when fit.