Aston Villa v Sunderland Post-Match Thread

[fredm]

Although frustrated by the game yesterday I am beginning to think that the fault does not lie with the players but with the level of coaching - I cannot see an improvement in a general level of ball control, mobility off the ball, variance in corners, possession in key areas, running into channels and decisive and defence splitting passing. I will admit that on the positive side the defence looks a more cohesive unit so the extra work being done there is paying off. What is a concern is that there appears from my viewpoint a degree of lethargy and possibly a lack of developed fitness.

Agree 100 per cent. They might not be the best players in the league but if they are coached/drilled into a cohesive unit they would achieve more than they are at present. I think everybody would agree that our movement off the ball; our taking/marking at throw ins and our tactics at corners (both attacking and defending) are abysmal. The coaching staff really need to start getting their act together or PL wants to forget some of the old boy network and get some coaches in who will improve things.

[PaulWinch again]

Let's be clear I'll be happy with a steady mid-table season which it is currently shaping up to be. However we need to address our obvious issues, one of which is the on-going lack of creativity from midfield. A decent quality creative midfielder will massively improve our results at home.

[Dave Cooper please]

We need a decent centre forward who can pull the defence apart and create the space we need to complement our build up, which looks fairly decent up until the final ball.
Someone like that Benteke bloke we had last season would do.
Unfortunately he's decided to imitate a wardrobe.

[Toronto Villa]

Er...what?

He is saying same thing as me and you but not in English. Luckily I speak perrybarrian so I understand and basically it's all positive stuff!

Excellent thank you. I used my Perry Barr translation guide, but it's a little outdated considering I booked it out from Erdington Library in the late 80's.

[frankmosswasmyuncle]

The persistent hoofing of the ball up to Benteke who was beaten by O'Shea every time shows a massive lack of nous - from the manager and the players who did the hoofing. Gabby was our biggest threat and hope of doing something yesterday, but too many players around him wanted to give the ball to someone else as soon as they got it, not take responsibility/risk for trying something that might create a break through their defence or lose possession. We seem too constrained/frightened at VP to do anything that might be the slightest bit creative, take a chance, or when we do get into a decent position the quality of the delivery/cross is shit!
Keep the ball on the floor, pass and move early, not stand and wait for the predicatble ball to arrive - again!
I see progress in the terms of being safe, but regression in creativity, attacking play and the threat on goal that we had in shedloads from Jan/Feb last season.
Plumbutt's right - if we could get that Benteke bloke back that we had last season, we'd be a pretty happy bunch.
Looking forward to Wednesday, if only the thought that we can't be so shite again!
Things can (only) get better!
UTV!

[Dante Lavelli]

http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/720188/LiveStatistics/England-Premier-League-2013-2014-Aston-Villa-Sunderland

Not great stats from Benteke's point of view.  From my perspective he didn't seem to go marauding like he used to.  I hope this is because he's coming back from injury and lacks fitness rather than a mental/sulking problem.

[olaftab]

We need a decent centre forward who can pull the defence apart and create the space we need to complement our build up, which looks fairly decent up until the final ball.
Someone like that Benteke bloke we had last season would do.
Unfortunately he's decided to imitate a wardrobe.

Well summed up. You should be one of those pundits on TV.

[ktvillan]

The statistics and increase in clean sheets (not difficult to get more than zero) would seem to indicate an improvement defence-wise but I still think our defence is far from convincing and nowhere near what it should be.   Where we do seem to have improved to an extent is on defending corners and set pieces, but our general defending is still very erratic to say the least.    We were all over the place first 20-30 minutes against Albion and they could and probably should have been three or four up - it reminded me of the first half against Swansea away last season.  We looked very fortunate not to concede a couple to Sunderland, thanks to Giaccherini missing a sitter and a fortuitous penalty call.  So I'm not convinced that our new found lack of penetration can be explained by greater focus on defensive solidity.  We've been unlucky to lose Okore but Luna looks an awful defender, Baker is questionable, and Clark has never impressed me and still doesn't.  I doubt very much the likes of Bennett or Herd would improve things much.

[supertom]

The statistics and increase in clean sheets (not difficult to get more than zero) would seem to indicate an improvement defence-wise but I still think our defence is far from convincing and nowhere near what it should be.   Where we do seem to have improved to an extent is on defending corners and set pieces, but our general defending is still very erratic to say the least.    We were all over the place first 20-30 minutes against Albion and they could and probably should have been three or four up - it reminded me of the first half against Swansea away last season.  We looked very fortunate not to concede a couple to Sunderland, thanks to Giaccherini missing a sitter and a fortuitous penalty call.  So I'm not convinced that our new found lack of penetration can be explained by greater focus on defensive solidity.  We've been unlucky to lose Okore but Luna looks an awful defender, Baker is questionable, and Clark has never impressed me and still doesn't.  I doubt very much the likes of Bennett or Herd would improve things much.

In the center we look fine. Actually the funny thing was against W.B.A we had Clark at LB and looked better there, but of course weaker then in the middle because of Baker.
For me much of our resoluteness has rested on Guzan, Vlaar and Clark. They've been well drilled and in good form. Bacuna initially looked solid but he's all over the shop now. Luna is positionally frightening, and our fullbacks do still get isolated too often.
We've been a little fortunate thanks to some dire finishing by some sides, or playing sides who are just pretty poor (like Cardiff who barely got a sniff).
I worry about losing Concrete Ron. I think if he picks up an injury then our defence will part like the red sea. Much as Clark has done very well, if he's got to partner Baker, firstly one of them has to play RCB and I don't think Clakkys ready to be the commanding officer at the back yet. He's worked immensely hard on his concentration, so he could do without worrying about what Baker and his fullbacks are doing.
And if we start conceding a lot, we're in big trouble, because offensively we're woeful.

[kippaxvilla2]

The fact that we are all still arguing and debating means that we care and expect better no matter how deluded we may appear - the day we accept just being in the Premiership as our reason for being we become the Albion. Keep ranting Villans!

I did attend hungover and it did have a numbing effect ;-)

Bang on. We shouldn't just be happy with just being in the PL. We're Aston Villa, not the Albion or Stoke etc. We are into our 4th season of struggle now, this hasn't happened in decades. We should demand better.

It isn't happening now. It might not suit your argument but we are in the top half.

In comparison to our average finish in the Premier League - leaving the last 3 seasons aside I think he may have a point.

[fredm]

The statistics and increase in clean sheets (not difficult to get more than zero) would seem to indicate an improvement defence-wise but I still think our defence is far from convincing and nowhere near what it should be.   Where we do seem to have improved to an extent is on defending corners and set pieces, but our general defending is still very erratic to say the least.    We were all over the place first 20-30 minutes against Albion and they could and probably should have been three or four up - it reminded me of the first half against Swansea away last season.  We looked very fortunate not to concede a couple to Sunderland, thanks to Giaccherini missing a sitter and a fortuitous penalty call.  So I'm not convinced that our new found lack of penetration can be explained by greater focus on defensive solidity.  We've been unlucky to lose Okore but Luna looks an awful defender, Baker is questionable, and Clark has never impressed me and still doesn't.  I doubt very much the likes of Bennett or Herd would improve things much.

In the center we look fine. Actually the funny thing was against W.B.A we had Clark at LB and looked better there, but of course weaker then in the middle because of Baker.
For me much of our resoluteness has rested on Guzan, Vlaar and Clark. They've been well drilled and in good form. Bacuna initially looked solid but he's all over the shop now. Luna is positionally frightening, and our fullbacks do still get isolated too often.
We've been a little fortunate thanks to some dire finishing by some sides, or playing sides who are just pretty poor (like Cardiff who barely got a sniff).
I worry about losing Concrete Ron. I think if he picks up an injury then our defence will part like the red sea. Much as Clark has done very well, if he's got to partner Baker, firstly one of them has to play RCB and I don't think Clakkys ready to be the commanding officer at the back yet. He's worked immensely hard on his concentration, so he could do without worrying about what Baker and his fullbacks are doing.
And if we start conceding a lot, we're in big trouble, because offensively we're woeful.

In the second half of the season there is usually a team who plummets from an apparent comfortable mid-table position to a squeaky bum position jostling with other relegation candidates.  It is all very well saying we are comfortable but an injury to Vlaar could well see us being the team that plummets as there just does not seem to be any leadership, guile or general ability within the rest to take hold of a game and I fear for us if we got on a bad run.

[brontebilly]

The statistics and increase in clean sheets (not difficult to get more than zero) would seem to indicate an improvement defence-wise but I still think our defence is far from convincing and nowhere near what it should be.   Where we do seem to have improved to an extent is on defending corners and set pieces, but our general defending is still very erratic to say the least.    We were all over the place first 20-30 minutes against Albion and they could and probably should have been three or four up - it reminded me of the first half against Swansea away last season.  We looked very fortunate not to concede a couple to Sunderland, thanks to Giaccherini missing a sitter and a fortuitous penalty call.  So I'm not convinced that our new found lack of penetration can be explained by greater focus on defensive solidity.  We've been unlucky to lose Okore but Luna looks an awful defender, Baker is questionable, and Clark has never impressed me and still doesn't.  I doubt very much the likes of Bennett or Herd would improve things much.

I think to be fair, Bacuna had improved us a lot at right back defensively. Physically strong, has pace to get back if he makes mistakes and good in the air. But in the last two games he has had shockers and as a result we dont look as secure down the right flank. Luna is a charlatan pure and simple. If he carries on in the same vein as his last few performances he wont be long getting the Stephen Warnock treatment from the fans.

I think Clark has improved a lot this season but lets be honest he wont take long to get found out again at left back anyway. Vlaar has improved definitely this season, still tends to go to pieces when he makes a bad mistake but has been solid generally. Bennett if fit deserves another shot at left but some of his performances last season were worse than anything that Warnock *spit* ever put in. Agree on Baker, he is an honest pro but I dont rate him in the slightest. Delph's improvement this season is a big reason why we havent been letting them in all over the place.

An injury to Vlaar particularly or even Clark and I think we will start leaking goals big time. Lambert has been very unlucky with Okore's injury but lets not forget he has also bought Bacuna, Lowton, Vlaar, Bennett and Luna.

Like last season I see it being a 7 or 8 team relegation battle, with our goals having long since dried up I think we will be well in the mix for it again unfortunately. Our performances thus far against Cardiff, West Ham, Hull, Sunderland, Norwich were worrying as we looked no better than any of them.

[dave.woodhall]

Our performances thus far against Cardiff, West Ham, Hull, Sunderland, Norwich were worrying as we looked no better than any of them.

Even though none of them beat us.

[Richard E]

Yeah, from 2 home games and 2 away games against those 4 we have taken 8 points, bearing in mind as well Hull turned Liverpool over yesterday. We also kept clean sheets in all 4 of those games having gone a year without a single one.

[Chris Smith]

The fact that we are all still arguing and debating means that we care and expect better no matter how deluded we may appear - the day we accept just being in the Premiership as our reason for being we become the Albion. Keep ranting Villans!

I did attend hungover and it did have a numbing effect ;-)

Bang on. We shouldn't just be happy with just being in the PL. We're Aston Villa, not the Albion or Stoke etc. We are into our 4th season of struggle now, this hasn't happened in decades. We should demand better.

It isn't happening now. It might not suit your argument but we are in the top half.

In comparison to our average finish in the Premier League - leaving the last 3 seasons aside I think he may have a point.

If you are using an average you can't just ignore 3 years that don't suit the argument. In any case, surely it's rebuilding from the mess of the previous seasons that has the most bearing on where we are now.

Yes, a couple of bad results might see us slip down the table but equally a couple of decent wins might see us pull away. However, that's all conjecture and relies on other results to go a certain way. If we stick to the facts we're in the middle of the table.