Are we a boring outfit?

[not3bad]

Since Lambert has taken over we've been a different team from one half of a season to the next.  I expect that to continue.  Given there is so little consistency it's difficult to nail down an opinion for his tenure as a whole. 

However, in the first half of the 2013/2014, I do think the "dull" label can be justified.  For instance we recently went 7 1/2 hours or something without scoring a goal, and grinded out two 0-0 draws during that 7 1/2 hours.  You can take some positives from that like it shows the defence is improving, but you can't call it exiting.

[peter w]

richard moore:

Quote from: saunders_heroes on November 20, 2013, 03:57:26 PM
Quote from: VillaiNorseVillan on November 20, 2013, 03:41:50 PM
I imagine a passing neutral might come to that conclusion due to our always being around in the PL era but rarely actually doing much to grab their attention.

That's not true. We've done as much if not more than the likes of Tottenham have done in the PL era, but I think people are judging us on where we're at right now, and let's face it we're a non entity at the moment. I look at this forum and see stuff that "Ads" (and others) post about us being "exciting" but I find myself shaking my head in disbelief. I think this is one of the poorest era of Villa teams I've ever seen and so do most if not all of my mates and work colleagues think as well. I just can't see it when I'm told we're "exciting".
Perhaps I'm just having a mid life crisis and I'm a grumpy old git, but I find Villa under Lambert boring, and we've become a team who are just happy to make up the numbers.

I agree totally, which won't surprise anyone. As I said above, I only have to spend about 10 minutes on the Villa Memories thread to be reminded that everything you have said here, for me, is true. But I'm probably having the same latter mid life crisis as you (I'm 51 and 52 next week, be warned Villa always lose on or around my birthday, you see you can't even rely on them for that. Perhaps that makes them exciting after all!!!)


so, you have two brithday's next week? Are you, what, 26 in human years?

[paul_e]

Since Lambert has taken over we've been a different team from one half of a season to the next.  I expect that to continue.  Given there is so little consistency it's difficult to nail down an opinion for his tenure as a whole. 

However, in the first half of the 2013/2014, I do think the "dull" label can be justified.  For instance we recently went 7 1/2 hours or something without scoring a goal, and grinded out two 0-0 draws during that 7 1/2 hours.  You can take some positives from that like it shows the defence is improving, but you can't call it exiting.

Yes but we also had the arsenal and man city wins where we played very well and played some really good football, we were very good in the first half against Everton and were the better team away at Chelsea.  Those were all exciting performances so calling the club dull is unfair, and importantly I don't think we've gone into any games intending to play dull containing football, we've just had to because we can't get our game going, that's very different to the likes of Stoke, etc.

[pauliewalnuts]

Since Lambert has taken over we've been a different team from one half of a season to the next.  I expect that to continue.  Given there is so little consistency it's difficult to nail down an opinion for his tenure as a whole. 

However, in the first half of the 2013/2014, I do think the "dull" label can be justified.  For instance we recently went 7 1/2 hours or something without scoring a goal, and grinded out two 0-0 draws during that 7 1/2 hours.  You can take some positives from that like it shows the defence is improving, but you can't call it exiting.

Yes but we also had the arsenal and man city wins where we played very well and played some really good football, we were very good in the first half against Everton and were the better team away at Chelsea.  Those were all exciting performances so calling the club dull is unfair, and importantly I don't think we've gone into any games intending to play dull containing football, we've just had to because we can't get our game going, that's very different to the likes of Stoke, etc.

Hmm, not sure you can say that about Man City. The second half, maybe, but the first half was one of the most one-sided matches I've seen in a long time.

I think the most important factor in this playing badly business is that sometimes, it won't work out, it won't go to game plan, and it is going to be like that for a while yet.

The crucial thing, though, is like you said - that we are *trying* to play decent stuff but mostly failing to do so. Compare that to the McLeish season, where defensive, unadventurous stuff was served up so often because *that's how his teams play*.

Massive difference, in my opinion. Probably not too convincing for neutrals but, hey ho, you know what, fuck neutrals.

[Monty]

We weren't boring towards the end of last season. However, for large stretches of 2012-13 we were too interesting - when our forwards didn't click we were at least entertaining in our flailing attempts at defending. All that's happened this season is that, when it doesn't work going forwards (and sometimes it still does), we've tightened up defensively.

Every team can be boring. We're a particularly odd side, in that we're brilliant to watch when it works and desperate to watch when it doesn't, and there's absolutely no other option - it's either brilliant or terrible. However, at least we're dull at the back this season.

[supertom]

I think the major thing is, it's early season. Some players are having second season syndrome. Some players are struggling to settle. We've had injuries to key players at times and we've had a tough start. It hasn't been pretty much of the time...BUT...there's the possibility, and a good likelihood, of improvement on the entertainment stakes. Because we've had a good stretch last season of looking like a good side to watch going forward, I'm hopeful that when everything and everyone settles down, we'll see more of that again.

The main thing first and foremost is points on the board. 14 points thus far isn't a bad return. We're well on course for comfortable survival, and you'd have to assume that with a very tough start out the way, our run of games coming up should see a more favorable return.

Last season at times was very messy. Very hard to watch. It was spare undies time on occasions, but never really boring. It might have been a bit too horrifying at times, but never boring IMO. McLeish was depressing, sleep inducing, party political broadcast boring.

We will get better and easier on the eye. But for me, points first, style second. Particularly having spent 3 years fighting relegation. Points come first, even if sometimes we have to win ugly.

[not3bad]

Since Lambert has taken over we've been a different team from one half of a season to the next.  I expect that to continue.  Given there is so little consistency it's difficult to nail down an opinion for his tenure as a whole. 

However, in the first half of the 2013/2014, I do think the "dull" label can be justified.  For instance we recently went 7 1/2 hours or something without scoring a goal, and grinded out two 0-0 draws during that 7 1/2 hours.  You can take some positives from that like it shows the defence is improving, but you can't call it exiting.

Yes but we also had the arsenal and man city wins where we played very well and played some really good football, we were very good in the first half against Everton and were the better team away at Chelsea.  Those were all exciting performances so calling the club dull is unfair, and importantly I don't think we've gone into any games intending to play dull containing football, we've just had to because we can't get our game going, that's very different to the likes of Stoke, etc.

Hmm, not sure you can say that about Man City. The second half, maybe, but the first half was one of the most one-sided matches I've seen in a long time.

I think the most important factor in this playing badly business is that sometimes, it won't work out, it won't go to game plan, and it is going to be like that for a while yet.

The crucial thing, though, is like you said - that we are *trying* to play decent stuff but mostly failing to do so. Compare that to the McLeish season, where defensive, unadventurous stuff was served up so often because *that's how his teams play*.

Massive difference, in my opinion. Probably not too convincing for neutrals but, hey ho, you know what, fuck neutrals.

It's not something I'm worried about because as you say, fuck neutrals, and also I'm confident Villa will get stronger as the season progresses.  Hopefully we'll get at least as good as we were last season with goals scored but this time won't concede as many goals, meaning a top ten or even top 8 finish.

[pauliewalnuts]

We're a particularly odd side, in that we're brilliant to watch when it works and desperate to watch when it doesn't, and there's absolutely no other option - it's either brilliant or terrible. However, at least we're dull at the back this season.

That's absolutely spot-on, Monty.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

Those were all exciting performances so calling the club dull is unfair, and importantly I don't think we've gone into any games intending to play dull containing football, we've just had to because we can't get our game going, that's very different to the likes of Stoke, etc.

Hull and West Ham away have to go down as two games where we didn't want to play. The word 'dull' flatters us regarding those two games.

[paul_e]

Those were all exciting performances so calling the club dull is unfair, and importantly I don't think we've gone into any games intending to play dull containing football, we've just had to because we can't get our game going, that's very different to the likes of Stoke, etc.

Hull and West Ham away have to go down as two games where we didn't want to play. The word 'dull' flatters us regarding those two games.

I think both teams played a part in those games, the issue was we were playing against teams who wanted to sit and defend and wanted us to just run onto them so they couldn't counter attack.  When we didn't and kept our shape it became what it was.  As the away team I have no great problem with us choosing not to fall into that trap.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

Those were all exciting performances so calling the club dull is unfair, and importantly I don't think we've gone into any games intending to play dull containing football, we've just had to because we can't get our game going, that's very different to the likes of Stoke, etc.

Hull and West Ham away have to go down as two games where we didn't want to play. The word 'dull' flatters us regarding those two games.

I think both teams played a part in those games, the issue was we were playing against teams who wanted to sit and defend and wanted us to just run onto them so they couldn't counter attack.  When we didn't and kept our shape it became what it was.  As the away team I have no great problem with us choosing not to fall into that trap.

I'll give you Hull who seemed terrified of our counter attacking threat so never really got at us. The problem was, we never showed any ambition or threat ourselves. Shockingly dull game.

West Ham, despite not playing with a striker for most of the game faced a Villa side that played 5 across the back and three defensive midfielders. It was no surprise West Ham's midfield dominated and bombarded our box with crosses to their non existent centre forward. It was great practice for our central defenders but horrible to watch as once again, we had zero ambition. An early Wiemann half chance and Benteke hitting the bar late on was all we produced in over 90 minutes. It was sad and embarrassing to watch.

Hopefully things will improve once Delph and Gabby are back but let's be honest, if TSM had been in charge of those two performances we'd be calling for his head. We've got on paper a few very winnable games coming up and hopefully a full squad to choose from but I can't help thinking we're not even getting the basics right and nothing like the team that finished last season.

[Caiphus]

The end of last season, our pressing and passing was so manic that it truly was exciting, but we didn't have the experience or the positional awareness to return to the best possible neutral state in transition and that is where the goals against leaked.  This season is generating familiarity with those structural positions in the immediate moment we give up the ball (which we do a lot of) so we aren't so susceptible to our own errors.  Side effects have been that we have been less adventurous with our off-the-ball movement and as a consequence we are making much of our own passing a lot more difficult to execute and our efficiency of ball use has suffered.  We are in that middle ground where it is unclear whether we can bring the best aspects of both of our styles of play together into one perfect dance combining solid defense and an unpredictable multi-pronged attack.  This time last year I was unsure whether this team would ever be capable of either... so now I'm excited to see if we can bring it all together to be capable of both at the same time.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

Agree with all of that, Caiphus, though I'm not sure if I'm so "excited" but I'm certainly praying we can bring it all together.

If we go back 15-16 months, the Norwich fans were telling us how important Culverhouse is to the team play, some even saying more so than Lambert. I certainly haven't lost faith and I'm convincing myself that Lambert is not another MON. I really want to believe there's more to him than our recent performances. As I keep saying, Lambert is still learning his trade and I'm sure we haven't seen the best of him yet.

It's just a shame we can't buy confidence but then with such a young team, it will come, given the time. I hope.

A win against those fleas from the Black Country could be just the medicine.

[Dave Clark Five]

The true test of the original question is at how many games would you sooner they be decided by the toss of a coin after about 10 minutes of crap?

[Pat McMahon]

The true test of the original question is at how many games would you sooner they be decided by the toss of a coin after about 10 minutes of crap?

Funny you should say that Dave - after 10 minutes at Upton Park Chico turned to me and said it had an inept 0-0 written all over it. I think they had lost their last 3 home games and were low on confidence and we were unable to exploit this. A coin toss would have been the humane solution.