Alan McCafu

[paul_e]

The problem is whilst there have been people that have acknowledged his contribution and the limiting factors around that (playing in an overall shit team, playing in systems or roles that aren't suited to him etc) there are always people that will just continue to say he's shit no matter what (case in point). Numerous times i've seen Hutton be one of the best players in the side, and many acknowledge this, yet some people still single him out in the post match thread for abuse. It doesn't really tally up and to me it seems obvious that these people's preinstalled bias clouds their footballing perception.

What you've described is how a defender should generally play. He's not a wingback, and shouldn't be played as one, but he is a solid defender when played in the right team, and whilst his age now i think would preclude him from being premiership standard, he'll do us good for next season in the championship.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree, I think there are 3 groups of people when it comes to Hutton because you've missed out the people who watch him and regardless of how he's played use words like effort, determination, honest to describe him.  Those of us who really don't he's good enough end up having to be overly negative to get a point across to this group. A lot of people have said that he gets caught out of position far too often but some people have a preinstalled bias to still call him a 'solid defender' even when presented with clear evidence of numerous defensive errors.  He's had 3 games in a row where he hasn't made any particularly appalling errors and some people see that as evidence that he's been 'excellent' because the expectations of him are so low that no one is surprised or concerned if he gives the ball away from good positions.  As a defensive unit we've been better in the last 3 games and he's been part of that but that doesn't stop him also having been a big part of one the worst defences I've ever seen last season part of the defence this season that couldn't stop making mistakes in Janaury and February.

[Dribbler]

The problem is whilst there have been people that have acknowledged his contribution and the limiting factors around that (playing in an overall shit team, playing in systems or roles that aren't suited to him etc) there are always people that will just continue to say he's shit no matter what (case in point). Numerous times i've seen Hutton be one of the best players in the side, and many acknowledge this, yet some people still single him out in the post match thread for abuse. It doesn't really tally up and to me it seems obvious that these people's preinstalled bias clouds their footballing perception.

What you've described is how a defender should generally play. He's not a wingback, and shouldn't be played as one, but he is a solid defender when played in the right team, and whilst his age now i think would preclude him from being premiership standard, he'll do us good for next season in the championship.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree, I think there are 3 groups of people when it comes to Hutton because you've missed out the people who watch him and regardless of how he's played use words like effort, determination, honest to describe him.  Those of us who really don't he's good enough end up having to be overly negative to get a point across to this group. A lot of people have said that he gets caught out of position far too often but some people have a preinstalled bias to still call him a 'solid defender' even when presented with clear evidence of numerous defensive errors.  He's had 3 games in a row where he hasn't made any particularly appalling errors and some people see that as evidence that he's been 'excellent' because the expectations of him are so low that no one is surprised or concerned if he gives the ball away from good positions.  As a defensive unit we've been better in the last 3 games and he's been part of that but that doesn't stop him also having been a big part of one the worst defences I've ever seen last season part of the defence this season that couldn't stop making mistakes in Janaury and February.

Have you not not kind of disagreed, but agreed with me there?

I mentioned the obvious caveats that perfomances for any player are always going to be affected  by "playing in an overall shit team, playing in systems or roles that aren't suited to [them] etc" and "He's not a wingback, and shouldn't be played as one, but he is a solid defender when played in the right team", and personally i think that many of the reasons you don't rate him are because of the above. I think he, the team, but the back line in particular, are now benefitting from the right kind of set up and balance, defensively at least. The defense now has some protection infront of it, and better creative midfielders/wingers for them to pass it out to, meaning the fullbacks in particular can sit back more and focus on the more defensive duties.

We've not had the quality of player recently to play with wingbacks, because we've not had the quality of someone that can both defend and attack, Kyle Walker is probably the last good example i can think of. Yes, Alan Hutton is no Kyle Walker, but he's now back at the Spuds and in a top 6 premiership side, and that's where those kind of players ply their trade, at least when their nearer the finished article.

Hutton was, IMO, bottom half premiership quality, but his age and slowing legs mean he wouldn't cut it there now, he's still a good player for us and where we are though, and will be very useful next season where i guess we'll try and bring Bree through and hopefully have De Laet back.

[peter w]

He's poor but he's not League 1 standard which many of our team (squad) are.

Many of our squad are: really?

Yes.

Bunn
Elphick
Bacuna
Richards (not played much admittedly but he's poor)
Baker (maybe slightly harsh but lower mid table championship at best)
Amavi (he has played well in parts but for the most of the season i think he's looked terrible. Always just waiting for the rickett that gives the opposition a chance)
Cissokho (out of his depth in the Championship)
Gardner
Tshibola (maybe he'll get better but seen nothing thus far)
McCormack (not looked anywhere near good enough even though he's proved it at this level previously)
Agbonlahor (really hasn't looked even looked a threat at this level)


Just a few off the top of my head.

[Mister E]

He's poor but he's not League 1 standard which many of our team (squad) are.

Many of our squad are: really?

Yes.

Bunn
Elphick
Bacuna
Richards (not played much admittedly but he's poor)
Baker (maybe slightly harsh but lower mid table championship at best)
Amavi (he has played well in parts but for the most of the season i think he's looked terrible. Always just waiting for the rickett that gives the opposition a chance)
Cissokho (out of his depth in the Championship)
Gardner
Tshibola (maybe he'll get better but seen nothing thus far)
McCormack (not looked anywhere near good enough even though he's proved it at this level previously)
Agbonlahor (really hasn't looked even looked a threat at this level)


Just a few off the top of my head.

You've listed good Championship players here: most are far better than League 1 (even, dare I say it, Flabby).

[peter w]

He's poor but he's not League 1 standard which many of our team (squad) are.

Many of our squad are: really?

Yes.

Bunn
Elphick
Bacuna
Richards (not played much admittedly but he's poor)
Baker (maybe slightly harsh but lower mid table championship at best)
Amavi (he has played well in parts but for the most of the season i think he's looked terrible. Always just waiting for the rickett that gives the opposition a chance)
Cissokho (out of his depth in the Championship)
Gardner
Tshibola (maybe he'll get better but seen nothing thus far)
McCormack (not looked anywhere near good enough even though he's proved it at this level previously)
Agbonlahor (really hasn't looked even looked a threat at this level)


Just a few off the top of my head.

You've listed good Championship players here: most are far better than League 1 (even, dare I say it, Flabby).

Good? Other than the odd decent performance are you really saying that any of those have been good this season. I mean good?

[West Derby Villan]

He's poor but he's not League 1 standard which many of our team (squad) are.

Many of our squad are: really?

Yes.

Bunn
Elphick
Bacuna
Richards (not played much admittedly but he's poor)
Baker (maybe slightly harsh but lower mid table championship at best)
Amavi (he has played well in parts but for the most of the season i think he's looked terrible. Always just waiting for the rickett that gives the opposition a chance)
Cissokho (out of his depth in the Championship)
Gardner
Tshibola (maybe he'll get better but seen nothing thus far)
McCormack (not looked anywhere near good enough even though he's proved it at this level previously)
Agbonlahor (really hasn't looked even looked a threat at this level)


Just a few off the top of my head.

Bit harsh imho PW

[Gareth]

I really don't get the criticism over the contract, it has become standard in contracts since Bosman that you sign a player for a period and then the club have an option for extension based upon a clause, generally a good amount of appearances, being met...it's the club protecting its assets.

If they hadn't wanted Hutton to stay then he would have been left out before the clause was met...its not like we haven't had Bacuna sat there for half the season doing nothing that could have played there.

Personally I'm no Hutton fan because I think his constant marauding forward with little to no end product completely unbalances the defence when he is frequently out of position but I do believe that Bruce is happy to retain him for another year.

DeLaet will have been out for thick end of a year so he isn't going to hit the ground running, he'll take a good few weeks/months to get back to his best & every chance there will be the odd muscle injury in his rehab - and Bree might very well be seen long term as a centre half or defensive midfielder so seems sensible to keep Hutton around for another year....where it will be sad is if this time next year he is still first choice RB!

I just hope Gabby hasn't got a similar clause.

Seems a strange clause to have in a contract that was for 3(?) years.  Surely, with a player in Hutton's position, negotiating a new contract 1 year before the end would not have been difficult.

Not really strange though is it? 100% loaded in the clubs favour because if he isn't picked 25 times or whatever it took to trigger the clause he leaves for free in summer, managers have picked him so he has met the clause.  He might end up leaving in the summer anyway but the club decides if he does.

Sure Gabby has it too but he likewise will have to start 20/25 games in his final year which seems unlikely :-)

[LeeB]

He's poor but he's not League 1 standard which many of our team (squad) are.

Many of our squad are: really?

Yes.

Bunn
Elphick
Bacuna
Richards (not played much admittedly but he's poor)
Baker (maybe slightly harsh but lower mid table championship at best)
Amavi (he has played well in parts but for the most of the season i think he's looked terrible. Always just waiting for the rickett that gives the opposition a chance)
Cissokho (out of his depth in the Championship)
Gardner
Tshibola (maybe he'll get better but seen nothing thus far)
McCormack (not looked anywhere near good enough even though he's proved it at this level previously)
Agbonlahor (really hasn't looked even looked a threat at this level)


Just a few off the top of my head.

Spot on from where I'm sat.

[Dave]

He's poor but he's not League 1 standard which many of our team (squad) are.

Many of our squad are: really?

Yes.

Bunn
Elphick
Bacuna
Richards (not played much admittedly but he's poor)
Baker (maybe slightly harsh but lower mid table championship at best)
Amavi (he has played well in parts but for the most of the season i think he's looked terrible. Always just waiting for the rickett that gives the opposition a chance)
Cissokho (out of his depth in the Championship)
Gardner
Tshibola (maybe he'll get better but seen nothing thus far)
McCormack (not looked anywhere near good enough even though he's proved it at this level previously)
Agbonlahor (really hasn't looked even looked a threat at this level)


Just a few off the top of my head.

Bit harsh imho PW

I'd go with completely barmy to be honest.

Someone who scored 21 goals in the Championship a year ago is now League 1 standard?

A centre-back who played a full, comfortable season in the Championship last season and has been one of our best players in the Championship this season?

Right-o Peter.

[peter w]

21 goals and now not getting a start at Forest.

baker - as I said maybe a bit harsh.

[Pete3206]

He's poor but he's not League 1 standard which many of our team (squad) are.

Many of our squad are: really?

Yes.

Bunn
Elphick
Bacuna
Richards (not played much admittedly but he's poor)
Baker (maybe slightly harsh but lower mid table championship at best)
Amavi (he has played well in parts but for the most of the season i think he's looked terrible. Always just waiting for the rickett that gives the opposition a chance)
Cissokho (out of his depth in the Championship)
Gardner
Tshibola (maybe he'll get better but seen nothing thus far)
McCormack (not looked anywhere near good enough even though he's proved it at this level previously)
Agbonlahor (really hasn't looked even looked a threat at this level)


Just a few off the top of my head.

Nurse!

[Jon Crofts]

I always thought Hutton was a moment away from a physical assault on an opposition player when he first arrived from Spuds, a dreadful clogger.  He's improved in that department but he's still completely one dimensional and gets dizzy every time he crosses the halfway line with the ball at his feet. If I was paid what he's paid I'd work hard, keep quiet and take the money too, it's not his fault and he's far from the worst we've seen these past few years but he's still a symptom of the disease.

[Gareth]

How I've always thought of Hutton - dreadful in defensive third, awful in attacking third & excellent in middle third.  He makes lots of tackles (particularly the crowd pleasing sliding ones) in the middle, runs past opponents at pace in the middle but is clueless on delivering a ball once he has arrived up top & he never seems to be in a position to challenge or block an opponent crossing a ball.

[Mister E]

He's poor but he's not League 1 standard which many of our team (squad) are.

Many of our squad are: really?

Yes.

Bunn
Elphick
Bacuna
Richards (not played much admittedly but he's poor)
Baker (maybe slightly harsh but lower mid table championship at best)
Amavi (he has played well in parts but for the most of the season i think he's looked terrible. Always just waiting for the rickett that gives the opposition a chance)
Cissokho (out of his depth in the Championship)
Gardner
Tshibola (maybe he'll get better but seen nothing thus far)
McCormack (not looked anywhere near good enough even though he's proved it at this level previously)
Agbonlahor (really hasn't looked even looked a threat at this level)


Just a few off the top of my head.

You've listed good Championship players here: most are far better than League 1 (even, dare I say it, Flabby).

Good? Other than the odd decent performance are you really saying that any of those have been good this season. I mean good?

Good, in the context of the Championship; better in the context of League 1, whcih is the context youi put them in, in your post.

[nick harper]

How I've always thought of Hutton - dreadful in defensive third, awful in attacking third & excellent in middle third.  He makes lots of tackles (particularly the crowd pleasing sliding ones) in the middle, runs past opponents at pace in the middle but is clueless on delivering a ball once he has arrived up top & he never seems to be in a position to challenge or block an opponent crossing a ball.

Hutton, like a number of other players in the last few years, has been unfortunate to play in a succession of poor and dysfunctional Villa sides. He is not a bad player and was generally well regarded at Rangers and Spurs. He makes up for fairly limited talent with a fully committed approach despite probably suffering from a lack confidence for long periods of time. No player can like losing on a regular basis.

I suspect he is much more highly regarded in the dressing room than he ever will be from the stands even though I think Villa fans are always much more appreciative of limited players giving 100% than talented palyers who do not.