Aston Villa v Everton Post-Match Thread

[Dan England]

Just checked stats from last season and after 9 games we had 5 points, have I just made us all feel a teeny weeny bit better?

I'd rather compare to the tail end of last season where we seemed to be progressing. We looked decent in attack, but this season we seem to have regressed. Teams have worked us out somewhat. We don't look as effective going forward. Gabby and Weimann don't look like they could hit a barn door. Benteke has been rushed back too soon. Lack of a plan B is a worry. I know our home form is total shite and doesn't look like improving, but I don't think we'll be as effective away from home as we were last season (particularly 2nd half of the season).

We're not gonna have too many more games like Man City either. That was a once a season kind of game.

Was Arsenal once in a season as well?  We have had the toughest start to the season we have had in over 20 years.  We are a better side than the results so far suggest.

However after driving from the Isle of Wight via Leicester for today's game it only adds to the frustration of our extremely poor home form. The first 60 mins today were better but we cannot afford to miss those chances and still expect to win. On another day that result would have been very different.

[bertlambshank]

Until we start playing a pressing game at home to make up for our lack of quality,our home form will carry on being piss poor.
Mind you 4 managers haven't managed it!

[Chris Smith]

I haven't had chance to read the whole thread but for me it's a game that is easily summarised: we were the better team by far for an hour or so but squandered chances that should have given us a comfortable lead. We were then useless for the last 20 minutes.

[silhillvilla]

Looking at the Mcarthy challenge on Westwood, how is that not a straight Red? Very dangerous lunge

[danlanza]

Had the piss taken by Spuds fans last week, Everton fans this week.
I am not looking forward to next Saturday against Spam. We need a bloody good win and a bloody good performance.
Benteke needs to be rested, far from fully fit, and Gabby and Weimen need to step the fuck up and play much better.

[spangley1812]

Looking at the Mcarthy challenge on Westwood, how is that not a straight Red? Very dangerous lunge

I just saw that on MOTD it was a red for me I didnt see how bad it was yesterday and im sure he caught someone else just afterwards as well

[silhillvilla]

Would like to see Sylla and Lowton start next week with Bacuna pushed forward to RM

[Clampy]

We can't miss chances like we did and expect to win games. It was frustrating because I thought we played some nice stuff in the first half. Also, i'm not sure what point was of throwing a 6ft striker on and taking off a winger.

[supertom]

Just checked stats from last season and after 9 games we had 5 points, have I just made us all feel a teeny weeny bit better?

I'd rather compare to the tail end of last season where we seemed to be progressing. We looked decent in attack, but this season we seem to have regressed. Teams have worked us out somewhat. We don't look as effective going forward. Gabby and Weimann don't look like they could hit a barn door. Benteke has been rushed back too soon. Lack of a plan B is a worry. I know our home form is total shite and doesn't look like improving, but I don't think we'll be as effective away from home as we were last season (particularly 2nd half of the season).

We're not gonna have too many more games like Man City either. That was a once a season kind of game.

Was Arsenal once in a season as well?  We have had the toughest start to the season we have had in over 20 years.  We are a better side than the results so far suggest.

However after driving from the Isle of Wight via Leicester for today's game it only adds to the frustration of our extremely poor home form. The first 60 mins today were better but we cannot afford to miss those chances and still expect to win. On another day that result would have been very different.

No Arsenal was fully deserved.

Man City was by the grace of God. There was an element of fortune in all the goals, and that aside we barely tested Hart. We won the game in the space of 10 crazy minutes.

[supertom]

Until we start playing a pressing game at home to make up for our lack of quality,our home form will carry on being piss poor.
Mind you 4 managers haven't managed it!

At the moment I'd take average home form, as we had under O Neill, over utterly piss poor.

[Fin Feds Dad]

Until we start playing a pressing game at home to make up for our lack of quality,our home form will carry on being piss poor.
Mind you 4 managers haven't managed it!

Agree with this. The amount of time barry had on numerous occasions yesterday was worryingly familiar.

I think we need Sylla in there as he has a great engine on him and will help to press further up the pitch

[mr woo]

It seems to me that what it boils down to is we must endure week after week of games like that one yesterday, the Spurs game and the Hull game on the promise that Lambert will get it right.  I respect the posters who point out that the club was in a mess when Lambert came but in all truth I see very little improvement in real terms on where we were when O'Neill flounced out.

Yes, I give you that we have tried to play a better, more fluent game but even that has been abandoned and hoofball rules again.  We saw yesterday Benteke on the pitch and two target men centre forwards were on the bench.   We come under pressure and the ball gets lumped forward.   THAT is what is happening.   It should not be happening and is nowhere in the master plan that we are encouraged to believe Lambert has.   Even on BT Sport the other evening a summarizer being critical of an Italian game said of a piece of play "that was pure Guzan lumping it forward".   THAT is how we are seen in football at this time.

To buy into the Lambert master plan where everything works out fine at some indeterminate point in the future you have take on board that Lambert is a shrewd and canny, insightful operator.   He is well into his second season with us and I see no concrete evidence that he is any of those things.

The very core of our malaise is our absentee owner.   Everton have an owner who is a poor man compared with Lerner but he is Everton through and through.   He puts every penny he has on the line for the club he loves and it shows.   We have an owner for whom our club is a sideshow, a hobby, an interest, left in the hands of others to run.

The owner has obviously, post MON, placed strict cash limits on what can and cannot be done with the simple directive to his board that losses are to be reduced and Premiership security achieved at an affordable cost.   Aston Villa has become a business, nothing more, nothing less.

So, Lambert, given his modest bag of money is like a man playing roulette in a casino who covers the table with small bets in order to maximise his winning chances.   That is not having a master plan.   That is playing the percentages and that is precisely what we are getting by way of results.   You finish up going skint.   Believe me I have been there (ask Bob).

What lies down this road is not some claret and blue dawn when all the bargain buys start to surge up the table and into the CL.   What lies down this road is collapsing attendances at games and our business oriented club executive become aware that the fans are not a crop to be harvested any more and Bent style signings are used to try to lure the crowds back.

This is nothing new at Villa Park.   Trevor Ford was my ealiest experience of the same situation fifty or more years ago.

How can I sum up my deep unease?

Paul Lambert does not have a master plan.   He is winging it.

Excellent post of which the majority I agree with.

One thing I struggle with though, is the criticism of Lerner for his absenteeism.

Ultimately of course, he carries full responsibility but...he has always been open in that he leaves the day to day (business) running of the club to intelligent people who should be, and I'm sure are, capable of carrying out their roles unsupervised.

If you are leveling your criticism of Lerner toward the performances on the pitch, I feel you are even further off the mark. That responsibility is the team managers alone. It has never been the remit of the chairman to select the line-up, suggest tactics or give a pre match pep talk. Dont forget we often lambasted a certain previous fellow for doing exactly that.

I promise you, if you were to ask any professional footballer what is going through their head as they walk onto the pitch  at the start of an important game, the GPS coordinates of the club owner would be the last thing on their mind.

[eastie]

Until we start playing a pressing game at home to make up for our lack of quality,our home form will carry on being piss poor.
Mind you 4 managers haven't managed it!

Agree with this. The amount of time barry had on numerous occasions yesterday was worryingly familiar.

I think we need Sylla in there as he has a great engine on him and will help to press further up the pitch

I think most people agree we look a much better midfield with sylla in there and results would suggest so too, I cannot see why lambert is not playing him to be honest .
Regarding the tackle on Westwood , yes it could have been a straight red but we have been lucky on 2 occasions when westwood himself could have been shown a straight red in recent games so I guess we can't complain too much .

I was surprised tonev came off for helenius and don't really see what lambert hoped to achieve with it as tonev looked one of our better players .
This 3 at home system with gabby and Weimann is not working - our next home game I would like to see bacuna and tonev in wide midfield roles alongside Delph and sylla with Lowton at right back

Neither gabby or Weimann are prolific enough in front of goal and I would like to see Kozak tried alongside benteke.

                      Guzan
Lowton.    Vlaar.    Clark.     Luna

Bacuna.  Sylla.  Delph.       Tonev

         Benteke.    Kozak

[Ron Manager]

I ,or anybody on the several Villa related forums cannot have any idea whether Randy Lerner remains interested or uninterested in the clubs fortunes. Why?, because he plays his cards very close to his chest and says nothing that might give the game away. Paul Faulkner and Lambert may have an idea but they are in very well paid jobs which is prefable to unemployment.

One things for sure we do not appear to be in any financial difficulties and we are in the top flight. Its only the end of October and things will improve because they have to. People on this forum have been suggesting that Weimann should be rested and I would agree but there is no one to come in. Bowery isnt good enough and Kozak hasnt shown he is up to the job in his first few games. At least with Weimann you are guaranteed he will have a go and thats better than nothing.

Cant figure Lambert out at all. He has had a fair ammount of time to sort out a style of play that suits the players but whatever that is its not working consistently or the players he has brought in on a small budget are not good enough. Benteke even when he gets match fit will have to do it all by himself and I think he will get rapidly tired of the physical effort this will entail.

Moyes could do it season after season on a small budget but its quite possible that our current manager isnt intelligent enough to cope.
Its all right playing the hard man but to gain respect you have to grind out results and we are failing to do this.

But we have to stick with him because there is nobody else of any decent standard available.

So we carry on as we are hoping things can only get better.

But will they?

[olaftab]

We can't miss chances like we did and expect to win games. It was frustrating because I thought we played some nice stuff in the first half. Also, i'm not sure what point was of throwing a 6ft striker on and taking off a winger.

Agree with you and I failed to understand the subbing. Tactically it made no sense. It appeared to be do something type of thing. Either Weimann or Gabby or both should have gone replaced by Sylla and Helenius. Hopefully Lambert is learning by making mistakes.