Ashes 2013/14

[eastie]

I was interested in vaughans comments on kp- he said either bring him into the inner circle as vice captain or ditch him altogether - he seems to feel kp is something of an outcast and they need to make a decision one way or another on him.

I heard that to and his point is that he is always fielding @ deep mid off/on or 3rd Man/Fine leg and never gives Cook advice/support on fields and or bowling changes 

Called him a maverick - maybe not as integrated as we are led to believe?

[taylorsworkrate]

I was interested in vaughans comments on kp- he said either bring him into the inner circle as vice captain or ditch him altogether - he seems to feel kp is something of an outcast and they need to make a decision one way or another on him.

I heard that to and his point is that he is always fielding @ deep mid off/on or 3rd Man/Fine leg and never gives Cook advice/support on fields and or bowling changes 

Called him a maverick - maybe not as integrated as we are led to believe?

There's no way that a number of the senior players were happy when he came back after the SA controversy.

I think it's pretty well known for example that Anderson and Swann cannot stand him. That being said though, team mates don't necessarily have to be the best of friends. Warne and Gilchrist had a deep mutual hatred but formed one of the best bowler/keeper combos in history.

That's the difference though. Warne and Gilchrist CONSISTENTLY performed, whereas KP has been woefully inconsistent for a decent amount of time.

[bertlambshank]

Looks like Montey might have played his last game for England the dirty scamp.

[eastie]

Looks like Montey might have played his last game for England the dirty scamp.

It's his only hope of bowling a maiden over

[paul_e]

I was interested in vaughans comments on kp- he said either bring him into the inner circle as vice captain or ditch him altogether - he seems to feel kp is something of an outcast and they need to make a decision one way or another on him.

I heard that to and his point is that he is always fielding @ deep mid off/on or 3rd Man/Fine leg and never gives Cook advice/support on fields and or bowling changes 

Called him a maverick - maybe not as integrated as we are led to believe?

There's no way that a number of the senior players were happy when he came back after the SA controversy.

I think it's pretty well known for example that Anderson and Swann cannot stand him. That being said though, team mates don't necessarily have to be the best of friends. Warne and Gilchrist had a deep mutual hatred but formed one of the best bowler/keeper combos in history.

That's the difference though. Warne and Gilchrist CONSISTENTLY performed, whereas KP has been woefully inconsistent for a decent amount of time.

He was also our top scoring batsman on this tour and is what the 6th highest run scorer ever for England?

He's not the problem and never really has been, but he's an easy target.

If you want examples of players not liking each other Clarke and Watson in the current Australia side is the obvious choice, it's been well known for years that they hate each other.

[taylorsworkrate]

I was interested in vaughans comments on kp- he said either bring him into the inner circle as vice captain or ditch him altogether - he seems to feel kp is something of an outcast and they need to make a decision one way or another on him.

I heard that to and his point is that he is always fielding @ deep mid off/on or 3rd Man/Fine leg and never gives Cook advice/support on fields and or bowling changes 

Called him a maverick - maybe not as integrated as we are led to believe?

There's no way that a number of the senior players were happy when he came back after the SA controversy.

I think it's pretty well known for example that Anderson and Swann cannot stand him. That being said though, team mates don't necessarily have to be the best of friends. Warne and Gilchrist had a deep mutual hatred but formed one of the best bowler/keeper combos in history.

That's the difference though. Warne and Gilchrist CONSISTENTLY performed, whereas KP has been woefully inconsistent for a decent amount of time.

He was also our top scoring batsman on this tour and is what the 6th highest run scorer ever for England?

He's not the problem and never really has been, but he's an easy target.

If you want examples of players not liking each other Clarke and Watson in the current Australia side is the obvious choice, it's been well known for years that they hate each other.

In fairness being top batsman from this current tour is nothing to brag about!

He is our best player, unquestionably, but i'd guess his average has dipped quite a bit over the last few years. I seem to remember it being around 52/53 now he's around 46/47. That's still good, but I'm a firm believer that with the natural talent he has he should be doing better than he has overall for the last 3-4 years.

I specifically used the Warne/Gilchrist example because its easier for players to tolerate a teammate they hate if they are putting in mesmeric performances on a regular basis. Pietersen hasn't been doing that for some time, so it would be no surprise if he was being ostracised to the extent where it was affecting team morale and unity.

Pietersen doesn't help himself at all. Him saying he was "as good as gold" and "playing as well as ever" were laughable comments when he kept falling into the traps being set for him.

I agree that he gets more stick than he really deserves, but he purposely portrays himself a certain way, and is more than willing to accept the over the top adulation for the (now) occasional good performance.

Besides, KP is hardly the first example of a sports team's most extravagant character receiving the most attention.

[taylorsworkrate]

I say all that, whilst believing that Cook, Prior, Anderson, Swann, Panesar, Bell to name a few have shamed themselves more than Pietersen this tour.

[eastie]

I wouldn't say he's never been the problem either - look at the way he belittled Strauss and was forced to apologise - vaughan has captained him and seems to feel there may still be a problem - i like kp and he can turn a game in a session but I daresay he can rub people up the wrong way as also could swann.

Goughie didnt chin him for no reason in the toilet .

[PGW]

Looks like Montey might have played his last game for England the dirty scamp.

It's his only hope of bowling a maiden over

What has he been up to now?

[spangley1812]

I have loved some of KP's innings but the way he has given his wicket away and exposed the middle order this tour has been very poor and we need to build a new team now and I dont think he wants to or will be around to play test cricket in the next 3/4 years

[villan from luton]

Other than Stokes and Broad to a lesser extent, none of the players did themselves justice, to say the least. It was embarrassing to watch and think Vaughan is right about that. Actually agree with spangley that Pietersen may not be around much longer, would not surprise me if he quits international cricket in the next few weeks. Not so sure it was him exposing the middle order though, the top three batsmen before him were doing that on a more frequent basis. Some players showed a lack of fight and when the going got tough, they went into their shells. There does seem to be a clique and Pietersen is out of that. By the way, what did Flowers say about Finn?

[taylorsworkrate]

I think Broad can be reasonably satisfied with his personal form, although he could have bowled better at the lower order at times.

[taylorsworkrate]

Even though these marks are low, I still can't help but feel they are extremely generous to a number of players.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2014/jan/05/ashes-england-player-ratings

For instance, how does a captain, who has barely scored a run and was powerless from preventing his opponents wriggling free from precarious 1st innings batting situations in pretty much all 5 tests get a mark as high as 4/10?

[willywombat]

Thanks eastie and Oz for your generous words. I have no doubt that England will re-group and be back at it before too long

[tomd2103]

Ah well, it's gone now and although there needs to be a thorough inquest into what wrong, it is time to try and recover some pride in the limited over games.  I can't understand why Cook has been kept on for the ODIs, as he's totally out of form and it would have been an opportunity to look at someone else captaining the side.  Also, can't quite understand why Pietersen hasn't been included.