Safe Standing - Fan led consultation - online link - post #43

[OCD]

The biggest issue with the legislation is that there are so few stadia (across sports and other events) that have to comply fully and are not allowed the discretion to just go ahead and implement rail seating.

I was speaking to Amfy about this a few weeks ago. There's a health and safety issue with regards to the concourses possibly not being big enough to cope with the extra numbers rail seating would bring. If rail seating is legalised, it's likely we won't see it in grounds unless new stadiums/stands are built.

I've seen talks about part of the Lower Holte being used as a trial and the likes of Man United having a trial section.

[Stu]

The biggest issue with the legislation is that there are so few stadia (across sports and other events) that have to comply fully and are not allowed the discretion to just go ahead and implement rail seating.

I was speaking to Amfy about this a few weeks ago. There's a health and safety issue with regards to the concourses possibly not being big enough to cope with the extra numbers rail seating would bring. If rail seating is legalised, it's likely we won't see it in grounds unless new stadiums/stands are built.

I've seen talks about part of the Lower Holte being used as a trial and the likes of Man United having a trial section.

I don't know where Man U's would be, but ours will be in the little corner between the Holte and the Trinity. I don't know if the whole section will be used in the trial though, Amfy could probably tell us more.

[amfy]

The biggest issue with the legislation is that there are so few stadia (across sports and other events) that have to comply fully and are not allowed the discretion to just go ahead and implement rail seating.

I was speaking to Amfy about this a few weeks ago. There's a health and safety issue with regards to the concourses possibly not being big enough to cope with the extra numbers rail seating would bring. If rail seating is legalised, it's likely we won't see it in grounds unless new stadiums/stands are built.

They don't have to build new stands to bring in safe standing, but they would for an increase in capacity.
you can get 70% more people into a safe standing area using rail seating, but until stands were rebuilt, you would not be able to use this increased capacity because the capacity of concourses & the number of exits would be to small to cope.

It is possible that some stands could be reconfigured within existing structures without a complete rebuild in order to safely accommodate increased numbers, not only in the stands, but in the concourses too.

However - it is most likely that early rail seating will be implemented at one person per seat space, so no early prospect of cheaper tickets.

initially at least, people will buy tickets for standing areas because they want toto stand, not because it will be cheaper.

[Richard E]

They were talking about it on WM this morning, the usual lack of background research and the usual duffers ringing in to dismiss the idea out of hand. The ludicrous comment was made the clubs are backing the idea as a way of getting more people into the space in order to make more money.

There was also an article in the Express and Star a few weeks ago from which it was clear that the writer had no understanding of the concept of safe standing but just assumed that the idea was simply to bring back old-fashioned terrace pens.

[amfy]

The biggest issue with the legislation is that there are so few stadia (across sports and other events) that have to comply fully and are not allowed the discretion to just go ahead and implement rail seating.

I was speaking to Amfy about this a few weeks ago. There's a health and safety issue with regards to the concourses possibly not being big enough to cope with the extra numbers rail seating would bring. If rail seating is legalised, it's likely we won't see it in grounds unless new stadiums/stands are built.

I've seen talks about part of the Lower Holte being used as a trial and the likes of Man United having a trial section.

I don't know where Man U's would be, but ours will be in the little corner between the Holte and the Trinity. I don't know if the whole section will be used in the trial though, Amfy could probably tell us more.

PF said they thought of that corner to get the idea off the ground, but it could change.
I probably had far more people object that the trial area was too small than object to standing.

[Stu]

The biggest issue with the legislation is that there are so few stadia (across sports and other events) that have to comply fully and are not allowed the discretion to just go ahead and implement rail seating.

I was speaking to Amfy about this a few weeks ago. There's a health and safety issue with regards to the concourses possibly not being big enough to cope with the extra numbers rail seating would bring. If rail seating is legalised, it's likely we won't see it in grounds unless new stadiums/stands are built.

I've seen talks about part of the Lower Holte being used as a trial and the likes of Man United having a trial section.

I don't know where Man U's would be, but ours will be in the little corner between the Holte and the Trinity. I don't know if the whole section will be used in the trial though, Amfy could probably tell us more.

PF said they thought of that corner to get the idea off the ground, but it could change.
I probably had far more people object that the trial area was too small than object to standing.

I need to be less drunk when you're telling me these things

Thanks for the clarification, Amfy!

[spangley1812]

Football League clubs consulted on return of standing

By Paul Fletcher

BBC Sport Standing could make a permanent return at all levels of the Football League after its 72 clubs were sent a document canvassing their opinion on the issue.

It is currently allowed in Leagues One and Two but Championship grounds must be all-seater after a club has played in the second tier for three seasons.

The consultation paper was sent to all Football League clubs on Friday.

The clubs, who had asked for more information about standing, will debate the issue at a meeting in February.

Trials & tribulations on terraces
 
•1946: Overcrowding at a Bolton v Stoke cup tie at Burnden Park leaves 33 dead
•1981: Jimmy Hill makes Coventry City's Highfield Road all-seater to combat hooliganism; the experiment lasts two years
•1989: UK's worst stadium tragedy occurs when 96 Liverpool fans die during an FA Cup semi-final at Hillsborough
•1998: Uefa bans standing areas for European games, but clubs in Germany refuse to scrap their terraces
•2001: Football Supporters' Federation is formed and makes safe standing a key campaign issue a year later
•2011: A year after Liberal Democrats put safe standing in their manifesto, the Scottish Premier League drops its standing ban
•2013: Football League sends consultation document to its clubs regarding a return to safe standing

"It is now over to the clubs to get their views," said Football League chief executive Shaun Harvey.

"Speaking personally, I do not have strong views on this and it is genuinely a matter for the clubs."

The subject was initially raised at the Football League's annual chairman's conference in Portugal last June, with clubs voting in favour of further investigating the issue.

Acting on the wishes of its members, Football League officials gathered more information, including canvassing the opinion of the Football Supporters' Federation  , which for many years has campaigned for safe standing.

"There has been a sea-change in attitude at clubs over the last two-to-three years towards safe standing and this is an example of that," said FSF co-chairman Malcolm Clarke.

"As far as the Football League is concerned the law is a total nonsense - it allows standing in League One and League Two but not in the Championship."

Football League executives also attended the German Super Cup final in July to develop their understanding of what is happening at grounds like Borussia Dortmund's Westfalenstadion.

The "Yellow Wall", as the southern terrace at Dortmund is known, can accommodate 25,000 fans.

Many German clubs have upgraded their terraces with "rail seats". These are metal seats that can be flipped up, and locked in place, providing space to stand behind a waist-high rail that runs along the back of the row in front. Every "seat" is linked to a ticket number, and can be flipped down to meet Uefa rules for European games.

The Football League document includes contributions from Derby County, Peterborough and Bristol City - three clubs who have expressed an interest in seeing the rules changed.

It also contains details of the changes that would be required from a football regulatory, government policy and legislative perspective were standing to return on a permanent basis in the Championship.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

Just seen the news.

Well done to all for your hard work in getting things moving.

[paul_e]

I assume that is in reference to http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/26079503

I find the comment "there is no such thing as safe standing" interesting, do you think we should tell the thousands of rock concerts, lower league games and rugby matches that happen every year with no incidents about that?  What happened at hillsborough was terrible but the opinions of that group are alomst entirely meaningless in this debate, so much so that I don't understand why they even get asked.  Everyone knows that they will never consider a reasonable middle ground on this, regardless of the evidence supporting safe standing and citing that standing in seated areas is more dangerous they just won't accept that terracing is anything other than a death trap.

[andrew08]

I think its a given that any Hillsborough group aren't going to support safe standing, and you can't blame them really. It would be interesting if any Liverpool fan would support it. I think Liverpool's support in the whole campaign would be quite pivotable. Has any one canvassed them?

[Ads]

I feel sorry for Margaret Aspinwall's loss, but she doesn't half talk a load of old shite.

[Des Little]

Probably been said before, but I was at Anfield the other week and was sat in the Main Stand right next to the Kop. The whole of the back third of the Kop were stood up for the entire 90 minutes.

[Clampy]

I feel sorry for Margaret Aspinwall's loss, but she doesn't half talk a load of old shite.

You can fully understand why she would be against it, but to claim there is no such thing as safe standing is wrong.

[cdbearsfan]

The majority of the 72 Football League clubs have at least some hope of playing in the Premier League one day. Whether the hope is realistic, fanciful or "if we get some billionaire buy us you never know" most of them at least like to consider it a vague possibility. As such, very few Football League clubs will bother converting to Safe Standing knowing that they'd only have to convert back if they ever get in the top flight.

I think the Premier League should lobby for clubs to be allowed to bring it back if they so choose. If Liverpool don't want to prerogative but they shouldn't be able to emotionally blackmail the other nineteen clubs out of doing what their fans want them to do.

Like everyone on here, I have every sympathy for the Hillsborough Support Group but while they have this attitude of "there is no such thing as Safe Standing" and are unwilling to even consider any other viewpoint we have to just carry on regardless of their views, even if that sounds callous.

[astonvillan]

I feel sorry for Margaret Aspinwall's loss, but she doesn't half talk a load of old shite.

Always has. Same can be said for Trevor Hicks who used a Hillsborough Memorial Service at Anfield a few years back not to pay tribute to the two daughters he so tragically lost, but to berate Liverpool fans for standing up at home and away games.